Name Peter Haley
Riding Ottawa South

Recent posts

  • #environment-2
    A risk assessment of climate change would include at minimum the impact on agriculture, energy systems, public health, coastal infrastructure, labour production. Let the party commission this assessment, the costs involved vis a vis better positioning of a new industrial (green) revolution. Harper won’t do it, it’s there for us…[Read more]

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    • we could easily turn around the manufacturing sector by investing in all forms of alternate energy sources of the renewable kind, while keeping those already employed in the oil patch gainfully employed. I worked at a major natural gas plant for 17 years and the workers are you and I, not some foreign entity we should weed out like a disease. for…[Read more]

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  • Peter Haley posted an update 7 months ago

    #environment-2 hard to believe that the environment isn’t front and centre with this party. we seem to back most pipeline projects which will transport oil sands to foreign markets, almost like we got away for years with exporting asbestos and taking no responsibility for the negative impacts. I find it harder and harder to support a party…[Read more]

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    • What would satisfy you though?[no snark] A Carbon tax? A national energy plan that laid out clear bench mrks for transitioning away from oilsands? Or do you want more?
      I really can’t see any responsible govt just shutting down the oil sands.[ we’d have a western separatist movement up and running in under 5 years.[Harper would doubtless be running…[Read more]

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      • That’s a very good comment, Ken. I feel we’re becoming like the USA, where politicians KNOW that The Affordable Health Care Act is good for their citizens and an absolute for the country (once the bugs have been cleaned out), but won’t stand by it because of a personal fear of not being re-elected. Canadians weren’t like that, we knew what…[Read more]

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        • very interesting article on “grist” today on the financial risks of climate change, from the business sector: agriculture, public health, energy systems, coastal infrastructure, and labor productivity. must say I hadn’t even considered “labour productivity” with questions regarding what happens to the construction industry with extremes in heat…[Read more]

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      • What would satisfy me, for a start, would be put out the truth to the Canadian public about what percent of our economy is fossil fuel extraction based–much less than the industry ads have everyone believing. Then emphasize how many jobs are being created worldwide in the renewable energy industry. Then endorse truth-telling about the enormous…[Read more]

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        • Some great ideas there Susan, and using BC as the blueprint seems good to me. I am well aware, though, that many turn off when they hear carbon tax, and all the doom and gloom about climate change. I think any reasonable person would agree that we must do something though, and lead on the issue not just follow. It needs a rebranding (hate to…[Read more]

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          • Thanks for your reply. Maybe what’s needed, rather than rebranding (a term that makes me shudder) is some vivid imagery. I think of climate change as being like a cliff that our civilization is driving toward. The fossil fuel industry wants us to rev the accelerator and get there sooner, damn the torpedoes. The Conservatives want us all to…[Read more]

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  • #environment-2 from a man always a little ahead of his time…to another of his time:

    “For the first time ever, a former U.S. president has come out against the Keystone XL pipeline.

    The ex-president in question is Jimmy Carter.

    The 39th president joined a group of Nobel laureates to sign a letter urging the current commander-in-chief to…[Read more]

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  • #environment-2
    this is the key issue of the day, and has been put on the back burner, so to speak. we have to take our fragile environment seriously, the cons don’t. carbon taxes and a legitimate environmental assessment and review process for major projects should and must be part of any liberal platform going forward. it’s a winner, and a survivor.

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    • Peter: I totally agree. Stephane Dion ran into a buzz saw with his Green Shift in 2008 but times have changed. We are losing our Arctic ice cap, we got flooded on Calgary and Toronto and our friends in the US are being hammered on all sides with extreme weather.

      Stephane Dion proposed a Carbon Tax that would be used to reduce taxes or provide…[Read more]

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      • Here’s another article I discovered about how wind energy has helped stimulate the economy in Colorado. http://www.evwind.es/2013/08/08/in-colorado-wind-energy-stats-will-blow-you-away/34952

        Sounds like some background material for Green Energy speeches in Canada.

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      • Michael said elsewhere, One of the problems of well head taxes is the measurement. The metering is not very sophisticated at the well head.
        Anyway there is no room to write anythiung more.

        I am pretty sure Michael that when the oil companies sell their products, be they by truck, rail or pipeline, they have a pretty accurate idea of what they are…[Read more]

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        • Don:
          Yes, there are trucks and pipelines carrying varying grades of bitumen in several directions.

          If we have the administration sorted out on taxing at the well head, I am fine with that too.

          Our EDA did submit a resolution to the National Party pushing for a price on carbon. I did not see the final wording. I doubt that it had any detail on…[Read more]

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    • I just came across this report Sky didn’t fall’ after British Columbia lowered income tax, dropped fuel use with carbon tax .

      Successive governments have retained the Carbon Tax and the economy has continued to grow,

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      • The “Stephan Harper Government” while sending a clear and consistent message of “the job killing carbon tax”, has left itself without any room to maneuver.

        I thought that they would soften the message when Keystone was waking up the US public. They will not have time to change the message.

        It seems to me they are more concerned about the US…[Read more]

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        • John:
          But this could be an opportunity for the Liberal Party to take ownership of this issue.

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          • With the large unlimited political contributions in the US, it will be an uphill battle for a Canadian federal political party. Could Trump’s wealth and resources dominate the debate in Canada? I believe it already is.

            Very surprised the Government took sides in the last US election. Never did I hear of that before. I think this gives some…[Read more]

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            • John:
              If the Liberals continue with legalizing marijuana as the only thing that distinguishes them from the Conservatives, then the election results will be more of the same.

              A bold stance by the Liberals on reducing carbon emissions could draw a lot of people who are on the fence to the Liberal Party.

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              • I agree that we need more to set us apart from the others. All I suggest is caution on this issue, there is a much bigger lobby group against environmental policies than cannabis.

                I agree that the environmental issues must be addressed, the question is how without letting the deep pocket lobbies from keeping control of the debate while mocking…[Read more]

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                • respectfully, that’s the biggest load of garbage (organic).

                  we can live without marijuana, but future generations are in peril if we don’t do something about climate change. your reading of Michael’s teaves is distorted. Obama will move toward a carbon tax, but, ironically enough this time he needs movement from Canada and Mexico at to make…[Read more]

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                  • Peter:
                    British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec already have carbon taxes and no one has fallen over a cliff.

                    Thomas Mulcair has already come out with “no new taxes” so JT still is in a position to take ownership of this policy.

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                  • Peter;

                    I am afraid that you misunderstood, I believe that green is the way to go. Sustainability is very important.

                    The question is how do we proceed without getting into the Trump trap?

                    What my caution is, we must find a way to bring some rational into the debate.

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          • Michael; something you may want to look at.

            http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/08/08/keystone-and-oil-emissions-a-macleans-round-table/

            “But much depends on other moving pieces of the Washington chessboard (and how closely the Harper government is perceived as aligning with US Republicans’ quest to strip Obama of power over KXL, I’d add).”

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            • John:
              Thanks for the link.

              What is missing is that most of the carbon is released when you burn it (possibly in China).

              So Obama can make Alberta produce their oil in a cleaner manner but it does very little to reduce the impact on Global Warming.

              We have to gradually convert to a low-carbon economy by reducing our carbon emissions at the rate…[Read more]

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              • Agree, question is how to proceed without exposing ourselves to the talking points that people seem to be buying?

                The Government reason for the delay for carbon pricing was supposed to be we cannot do it unless the US does. It seems to me that the White House is asking for some kind of agreement to start carbon pricing.

                Now people are saying we…[Read more]

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                • John:
                  Its true that Harper has used the “level playing field” angle to delay adherence to Kyoto or other carbon limiting agreements.

                  But we can deal with that with a carbon tax on the estimated carbon emissions from things we import.

                  A good example is steel. If our steel companies have to pay a carbon tax, then we give them a break by charging a…[Read more]

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                  • There are ways to develop policy that level the field, I will not dispute that.

                    My concern is how do we convince the electorate that it will not kill jobs. How do we take something as complex as tax reform and keep it simple?

                    One argument that I have heard recently is how the “scientists” predicted another ice age in the 70’s. I do not believe…[Read more]

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                • John:
                  I think everyone will agree that pollution is a bod thing.

                  But the oil lobby will disagree that carbon is a pollutant. Plants use it for nutrition, humans breath it out, its invisible and it is only .04% of our atmosphere.

                  We have to lead on this or it will be completely derailed.

                  We start with the flooding in Calgary and Toronto. Then…[Read more]

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                  • This discussion does have merits, but we must get people to discuss the issues rationally. The discussion is not advancing but is becoming more polarized.

                    Policies have been developed by some very intelligent people including Stephan Dion. What we need is a comprehensive message. We must find a way to listen to the skeptics and look for common…[Read more]

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                    • John:
                      You will never convince a skeptic. But I know where you are coming from.

                      Skeptics are usually people who will suffer if oil production will be reduced.

                      But oil workers actually have terrible jobs in cold weather with their families in very cramped conditions with poor social services.

                      The story you give these people is there are better…[Read more]

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                      • Full discloser Michael. I am moving to the heart of the oilfields, sometime in the near future. I have lived on a few occasions of my life, I know the talking points. My families livelihood depends on the oil sector.

                        I need a way to discuss this very difficult topic in the middle of skepticland. They only place we agree so far on this topic is…[Read more]

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              • Michael we have had this discussion awhile ago, and I still think a Canadian carbon tax, even if done correctly will have little effect on global warming, we have to shut down more oil production, shut down exporting oil, and focus on self sufficiency, low emissions, and better cleaner energy production, better use of energy that can replace oil…[Read more]

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                • Don:
                  Putting a tax on new births is the wrong message. We can feed more people and protect the Planet if we convert to low Carbon energy (Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Geothemal and bio fuel).

                  The entire tax collected is returned to the people and it can be rigged so the lower income people get a little better chunk than the rich people.

                  I think I have…[Read more]

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                  • Good to hear your comments again. Sure we can feed more people, but why? At what point do we find, like the amount of fossil fuels we burn, that we have overextended our use of the earth?

                    Also carbon tax may be the cop out we use to say we are doing all we can and the multitude of other ways like reducing speed limits, putting speed limiters…[Read more]

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                    • Don:
                      The world is emitting 80 Million tons into the atmosphere every day. We are not going to solve this problem by reducing speed limits.

                      You do have a point about population but Global Warming will look after the population problem without us making a political platform out of it.

                      Yes, cities cause cumulations of heat but this is not…[Read more]

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                      • All true Michael, and aside from getting elected again, our platform has to be more then just doing something about our green house gas emissions per capita, it has to do with reducing the oil we take our of the ground for export to at least 1990 levels, that in itself will push up oil prices world wide and have the same affect as a carbon tax,…[Read more]

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                        • Hi Don:
                          Yes, I agree with your thinking but are we going to pick out the coal power plants that have to close and decide on where the wind farm should be built?

                          Your idea would require some sort of rationing by province with some sort of inspections to see how they were going to keep the lights on.

                          A carbon tax is intended to accomplish your…[Read more]

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                          • yes we should but I wonder if we are restricted in applying a carbon tax to oil that is exported to the usa through NAFTA provisions.

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                            • Peter:
                              For sure this would be a lot easier to do, if the US implemented a carbon tax at the same time. But that is unlikely.

                              The pill might be a bit easier to swallow if we gave the collected tax to the White House. Maybe we could work out a deal like this.

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                              • I am all for carbon tax at both the well head, no matter where the oil is going, and also on all imported oil or fuel products, including finished products even things like plastic bags, plastic bottles and all such products that are a product of oil. I am totally against at the pump taxation completely, because it increases the price of every…[Read more]

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                                • Don:
                                  One of the problems of well head taxes is the measurement. The metering is not very sophisticated at the well head.
                                  Anyway there is no room to write anythiung more.

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      • “In British Columbia, the aim is to reduce its carbon emissions by 33 percent below 2007 levels by 2020″. and they’re on track. carbon tax is revenue neutral, and profits are poured into research and development. Quebec is buying in, and Ontario will be next. people adjust, that’s how we’ve evolved and sustained life on this planet forever and…[Read more]

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        • Peter:
          Actually people do not even have to adjust. The carbon tax is largely given back to the people through tax reductions and incentives. The the tax reductions can be progressive so that lower income people get more back that what they paid at the pumps.

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          • I think that the more you people consume is the more they pollute. If someone what a tax break they will need carbon credits or use less pollution energy sources, or using less fuel itself, essentially being more environmentally responsible.

            Lower income people simply do not pollute as much as higher income. More efficient transportation, less…[Read more]

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            • John:
              The problem with the “free market” is gas produces cheaper electricity than wind or solar. This is why you need a carbon tax to get power companies off gas onto wind, solar and geothermal.

              Here’s another way of looking at it. Global Warming floods caused $1 Billion in damages and $600 Million in damages to Toronto. So we are just charging…[Read more]

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              • A carbon tax will help get electricity producers off coal to oil, oil to gas, gas to wind and solar.

                What I found very disturbing is Edmonton put in a coal fired power plant in the early 90’s. I remember seeing it and I could not believe that they did not use available and cheep gas.

                I do not believe that the Conservatives Party hopes we do…[Read more]

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                • John:
                  The ice caps are melting and the planet is heating up.

                  If we don’t start curbing carbon emissions by 2015, global warming could be unstoppable and catastrophic.

                  We could get weather like we had in July every July and it could effect more cities beyond Calgary and Toronto.

                  The bigger issue is food. The US lost 8% of its grain crop last…[Read more]

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                  • great comment Michael. what did we do about it, why didn’t you tell us, what took you so long. it will be our legacy, just like why were so many innocent lives taken in unnecessary and unwinnable wars.

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                    • I am not sure that JT would be able to pull this off. Its something that Bob Rae could have delivered with the right tone.
                      But we should not depend on JT alone. Once the policy is accepted, Kirsty Duncan would do great at telling the story.

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            • the irony about more fuel efficient cars is that people will drive more. that does not help lessen carbon emissions, it increases it. a carbon tax is an incentive to drive less. if you drove less and got rewarded with a reduction in income tax as Michael says, who wouldn’t go for that? it’s rational, not complex.

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              • You lost me Peter;

                Why do people with inefficient cars drive less?

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                • because it costs more.

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                  • What a carbon tax will do is make people question their habits. If one really drives less with a vehicle that is not efficient, that is the environments gain. People have choices, if they really need to get from A to B, they will get a more efficient vehicle. The market will supply more efficient vehicles.

                    A tax rebate will take away whatever…[Read more]

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                    • We don’t always have choice. For my job, I currently drive 40,000k a year and I need 4WD. A carbon tax is going to drive the price of gas way up and it is already 1.359 a litre here and about 30% of that is taxes. An increase is is going to hurt a good part of the liberal base.

                      There needs to be incentives which will drive the creation of green…[Read more]

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                      • but would you be willing to pay a little more for gas and get a break on your income tax, that’s the question. and who’s to say that gas prices would increase if more people consumed, it’s supply/demand.

                        and, unfortunately, Justin hasn’t touched this yet. it’s up to us to move him to a carbon fee, or to come up with something better because I…[Read more]

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                        • I fail to see how getting it back in income tax would encourage people to reduce use if the net cost is the same.

                          Id’d rather get right out of driving a petroleum based automobile. Pure electric isn’t there yet for someone who drives my type of miles. At this point, if they made a hybrid vehicle as affordable for me, I’d switch, thereby reducing…[Read more]

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                          • no, it isn’t England, but I think that bolsters the argument for a carbon tax/fee, it’s affect would be more damaging to polluters and cause more urgency between government and industry to find solutions.

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        • Peter:
          Here is a new report from Assessment Report 5 of the IPCC.

          IPCC report: The financial markets (carbon tax) are the only hope in the race to stop global warming.”

          I think the concept of a Carbon Tax is fundamental to the Liberal Party approach to Global Warming.

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          • it’s time. if not the feds, then province by province. Ontario next for sure. 95%certainty, should be 100% clear.

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            • Peter:
              Kathleen Wynn is looking for new ideas at: Common Ground
              I have submitted my Carbon Tax idea and this eventually gets you connected to a blog where you can read and discuss what other people think of your idea.
              I get the idea that Kathleen Wynn is sincerely interested in new ideas. That in itself is a good attribute.

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              • thanks Michael. I have already sent in my 5 point plan to save Ontario (he he), one of which is a carbon tax (but not in any detail, but am assuming/hoping yours is). I believe this government under its new leadership can do so many things to improve our lot, and with an eye on the future, and Wynn seems to be prepared to do something, but I have…[Read more]

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                • Peter:
                  Actually Ontario is already at Kyoto Levels of carbon emissions. Only 22% of our power comes from fossil fuels so a carbon tax would not effect our cost of electricity very much but it would effect home heating and gasoline.
                  Most of the carbon emissions come from Alberta and Saskatchewan which burn a lot of coal to make electricity.
                  So I…[Read more]

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    • Stephane was a little a head of his time with his Green proposals. Voters are probably a little less reluctant today. I’m all for a carbon tax, it just needs to be presented correctly. And presenting it correctly, isn’t starting off your posts with a slur about cannabis.

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      • i suppose you’re referring to “we can live without marijuana” as a slur. no, frank mills, it isn’t. i’m comparing the legalization of marijuana policy (I prefer decriminalizing but that’s up for debate) to what I consider is a grave lack of backbone in the LPC’s attempt to do all we can to save the planet. if it becomes a conservative party…[Read more]

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        • They are both important and forward thinking people will realize that cannabis and hemp can be a very large part of a green policy that can save the planet. Others will continue with what I consider slurs.

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          • “save the planet” with cannabis and hemp”. now that’s a slur on “forward thinking people”. we won’t have a planet to save without controlling carbon emissions. but you can tell your children or grandchildren that when the liberals were elected in 2015 we got cannabis legalized! unfortunately, we didn’t have the courage to do anything about the…[Read more]

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            • Speak for yourself peter

              Most of the liberals I know, including our leader have courage in abundance

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              • I can only speak for myself frank. glad you can speak on behalf of all those liberals. your idea of courage befuddles me, and I don’t want to carry on any more of this foolish who is better shit anymore.

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                • seems like there’s a lot of (cowardly) haters here. and here I though liberals weren’t afraid to voice their opinions, speak their minds, and show their faces. it’s disappointing.

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          • Frank:
            I have not heard of how legalization of cannabis will reduce carbon emissions. What is your source information for this thought?

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    • Maybe both the reason for a carbon tax and what a carbon tax is should be more clearly explained.

      Firstly, there is a need to reduce carbon emissions to the atmosphere as carbon dioxide levels have increased at alarming rates. These emissions (carbon being 72%, methane 18 and nitrogen 9%) create a greenhouse effect which traps the normal escape…[Read more]

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    • Sadly, warming and cooling are natural elements the earth has gone through many times, sometime mini warmings and coolings, so it can not be denied that these things happen naturally, and that many of our problems seem to be related to man building infrastructure where nature is in contrast.

      Science and those of us with enough common sense can…[Read more]

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      • Don, I like your approach to thinking outside the box, but, unfortunately, we are already boxed (in).

        carbon is the only greenhouse gas element that has risen dramatically, and it’s accumulation is directly proportional to the rise in global temperature. we have 20-30 years to turn this thing around until we are cooked, literally and…[Read more]

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        • You are right Peter, but the earth was much warmer eons ago and that is what produced all the carbon we are bringing back to the atmosphere, and you might say we are rebalancing to those older times, only the earth as we know it and as it was then may not support life as we know it. It could be interpreted that we have decided to reduce our…[Read more]

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          • I don’t think the goal of a carbon tax is ”to slow down the mining of resources”. it’s to make the polluter pay for ghg emissions. the effect of that, in a business model, would be the polluter would attempt to reduce the pollution, coupled with more r and d for greener forms of energy.

            you keep saying what you propose is easy to implement. I…[Read more]

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            • Peter I am at a loss, so I think my way of thinking is missing something. I fully sensed that carbon tax was implemented or was suggested depending on where you live solely to cut GHG emissions, and to support other alternatives. If we are going to reduce the production of oil then I think as I have, do it, carbon tax is only a way of deciding…[Read more]

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              • of course the aim is to reduce carbon emissions, but we cannot expect the polluter to stop producing overnight. if his costs increase substantially, like $40./tonne, he will either accept a reduction in production/profits (unlikely) or find means to reduce the carbon (more likely). there will be exceptions, the only analogy I can think of at the…[Read more]

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                • I guess I just like to deal with problems head on with guaranteed results when the risks are so great. Do we have time for carbon tax to maybe work, or is all that will happen is higher consumer costs across the board? Is the government going to really do anything to hurt the oil companies, capping a low oil price would definitle shut down the…[Read more]

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                  • there are many prophets for zero growth, I certainly follow bill mckibben’s assessment that the world will be warmer by the end of the century than it has been in millions of years and that end is disaster. but, if you think selling a carbon tax/fee to Canadians is difficult, then how about zero growth? political suicide for sure, even though…[Read more]

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    • I am on board with the idea that we need to seriously look at energy alternatives that are sustainable. There is an idea that I think has merit and should be seriously considered. Most communities in this country have a renewable source of energy that is not being tapped. Cities generate substantial amounts of sewage that could be converted to…[Read more]

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      • I think it’s a great idea to turn waste into renewable energy by not emitting carbon. it has been resisted because it’s deemed expensive and could curtail recycling. but we are running out of landfills and actually export some of our garbage to other countries, such as usa (Detroit). but I say bring it on…Plasco is developing it here in…[Read more]

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  • #aboriginal

    this has always been a primary liberal issue, and should form a large part of our platform for 2015. paul martin has been a leader on aboriginal issues and concerns and his (failed) Kelowna accord or something like it should be restructured and supported by shawn atleo before the cons whittle away at even more of their budget. …[Read more]

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    • I think this should be raised as a topic for consideration. Ever since the injustice handed out to David Latimer, and more recent attempts, one of which was upheld by the courts, to legalize this end of life procedure for the willing dying, the right to die to end brutal suffering has become yet another issue that politicians try to avoid. I’m…[Read more]

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      • I agree and I think it comes down to the framing of the language of the argument.
        “Assisted suicide” is one framing, and may not get the result we are hoping for.
        Promoting the “right to die with dignity” may be easier to “sell”.

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        • I agree, the term “assisted suicide” is part of the problem. Suicide has to many negative connotations in our society. It is against many religious tenets and can also be viewed as “giving up” or “abandoning” ones family, responsibility etc.

          I prefer the term “Physician-managed death” and certainly “dignity” is a key…[Read more]

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          • there already is physician-managed death when the dying are taken off life support.

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            • I suppose that is true. So maybe what we need to do is expand on the when, where, why and how those physician-managed deaths can take place.

              I strongly feel that “physician” should be in there somewhere … I don’t think just anyone should be able to “assist” in a death.

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        • no problem with changing the name of the topic , except that it may be too broadly stated as “the right to die with dignity”. for example, there’s no dignity in dying alone in an institution, but i don’t think loneliness and being hospitalized are reasons in themselves for assisted suicide. i think it should be more sharply focused, but you’re…[Read more]

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      • for anyone who happens upon this topic, can i get an indication by a showing of thumbs up (thumbs down is a bummer) as to whether or not you think it has legs for policy consideration? i know it hasn’t been fully developed, but i think the concept behind the policy is intrinsically understood. thanks for any comments, thumbs, or whatever you…[Read more]

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        • one thumbs up, and it was mine. okay

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          • this topic, assisted death/suicide got waylayed. i’m wondering if anyone would like to comment further or if there’s any interest at all anymore. it has become more significant with associated court cases such as the current supreme court floundering over who decides over someone in a vegetative state which doctors feel has had his life…[Read more]

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    • i think we agree on more things than you realize.

      i apologize for not saying ROBERT Latimer, who served ten years in jail and more on parole for assisting in the suicide of his severly disabled daughter. i thought it was an act of compassion, not a crime. I guess David was on my mind (mcguinty).

      At any rate, I think “dying with dignity” has…[Read more]

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      • we’re talking about arranging for either your or another’s death, when you or they are needlessly suffering and there is no hope for recovery. i’ve had to extend it beyond “you” because of the case of Robert Latimer who a)knew there was no hope for his child to recover and b) saw her in excruciating pain daily. he was convicted of murder! you…[Read more]

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        • and the courts are with us. unfortunately, or fortunately, who knows, gooria taylor died before she needed the physician-assisted suicide:

          http://bing.search.sympatico.ca/?q=assisted%20suicide%20bc%20courts&mkt=en-ca&setLang=en-CA

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          • The British Columbia Supreme Court ruling in the Gloria Taylor case was very interesting. They did not rule that assisted suicide is legal or should be legal, rather they ruled that the existing law against it violates the Charter.


            “In her ruling, Smith noted suicide itself is not illegal, and therefore the law against assisted suicide…
            [Read more]

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            • i think it is a winning proposal to pursue the human right to assisted suicide, or however we want to name it. if one person (taylor) was granted that right, then all similar cases can be. it’s notable that she wasn’t physically unable to do it herself, but wanted to plan it to die with dignity. if the courts can’t resolve it, a willing government can.

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    • (putting this as a new comment instead of under your last comment Peter … getting too narrow in there and I lots to say – again :-))

      My point Peter was that your statement the “courts are with us” – is questionable once the actual ruling is understood. The BC Supreme Court was not supporting the right or legality of assisted suicide, they were…[Read more]

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      • Hi Martin,
        To answer your question about resolution 120, it did not make it to the convention floor because resolution 40 on medical isotopes received more votes in the Health 2 category. The way it worked was that the resolutions with the most votes *per category* moved forward. Therefore resolution 40 made it to the plenary and did in fact get…[Read more]

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        • Thank you André … I figured it was just that it did not make it to convention but I was not clear on how it worked. As always your input is greatly appreciated.

          Peter … it looks like of the 15 proposed policy resolutions in the Health 1 and 2 categories, 120 Support of Euthanasia came in 5th.

          If we want to get this into LPC policy, looks…[Read more]

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          • Individual members are way down the totem pole in matters of policy development, even though this is a supposedly new grassroots Party. I suggest we canvass the potential Leaders to get their opinion/backing/oppostion to this popular (Canadian population popular) proposal, and come up with a good backgrounder. It goes back to the Sue Rodriguez…[Read more]

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            • It’s not euthanasia, it’s assisted suicide. Perhaps better terminology would be “assisted dying”. Maybe we have to wait for the courts, but that shouldn’t stop the LPC from adopting a policy that should be easily dervived from our Constitution and the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms (in my opinion much more so than the legalization of…[Read more]

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            • I disagree. I think that the way we develop policy in the LPC starts with the individual initiative. Where do you think “grassroots” comes from Peter? Some “one” has to take the initiative and take it to a group (e.g. you EDA) and get the ball rolling. There is a system. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you.

              You seem to have strong…[Read more]

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              • This is a touchy subject, but it may have more to do with doctors’ fears of being sued by some family member than anything else (religious convictions which should be totally excluded from politics, especially when we have reform evangelists at the helm of the country). My wife has my directions in writing: no extraordinary procedure. Not one,…[Read more]

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                • I think what you are referring to is a “living will” which can state no resuscitation or whatever your instructions are to be considered by doctors in attendance, and, in your case, as advocated as your wishes by your wife. That’s not exactly what i’m referring to. It’s for those who are dying and are so incapacitated that they need someone to…[Read more]

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              • oh? what policy have you developed Martin?

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                • That is a typical response from someone who is nothing but talk and no action, Peter. “Why should I fight for what I believe in … Martin hasn’t done anything”. Brilliant – I expected better from you.

                  Anyway, my point was more about you slamming the LPC policy process when you are obviously not interested in being part of it and ignorant of how…[Read more]

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                  • So, in short, you have not developed any policies, but you do slam me for questioning how policies are developed and approved by the LPC. I don’t thnk you know either. Apparently one has to become a member of his/her riding association, and, when I submitted an intention to stand as a director at my assoication I was infomed that I need a…[Read more]

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                    • When you hear about rebuilding the Liberal Party of Canada – it means renewal of the policy development process (happening, ask @maryanne-kampouris) and it also means rebuilding riding associations. This is happening in some ridings and taking longer in others.

                      As a member of the LPC, you are already a member of your riding association. They say…[Read more]

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                      • Thank you. I did not realize that being a member of the LPC that I am already a member of the association. I have no problem with the normal nomination process, but I thought, I guess wrongly, that it had to come from the assoication’s executive.

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                        • Hello Peter, I note that there are some aspects of the Party that are best clarified.

                          First, policy is something that is supposed to come from the members. Every EDA is supposed to have a Policy Chair, who is responsible for engaging both members and members of the public in policy discussions to a) identify issues that matter locally, and…[Read more]

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                          • Yes, thank-you Maryanne. I think there is a difference between stated policy and what happens ion the ground. I know who the Policy Chair is in my riding (EDA), he in fact has a law office right across from my house. I was surprised to learn he was the Policy Chair, only known to me because of an e-mail I received when I stood for election as a…[Read more]

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                          • The issue that seems to be missed is that too many EDAs that are functioning still aren’t functioning in the way they should be functioning, not to mention the ones that aren’t functioning at all. This has been a key rebuilding issue for years. Why hasn’t it been rectified yet?

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                            • that’s been my experience, douglas, but the Party either refuses to believe it or isn’t trying hard enough to rectify it.

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                              • Hey Peter and Doug, “the Party” is you and me, and even the best tools, left untouched cannot help us rebuild.

                                Every EDA President has access to a list of members. Some have capacity to reach out, others have less. If there is something you think can be done that you can help with, please step in.

                                For instance Peter, you have an issue of…[Read more]

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                                • cat fights are not at all useful, unless just blowing off steam, but then you have to go into a corner alley somewhere and lick wounds. sorry for the ridiculous analogy, but that’s how my mind (?) works. fruitful i will be.

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                                • The problem is that some EDAs do not want to hear from its members and does not keep them informed, and some do not even attempt to keep in touch with the members. They have their own little group, and want to keep that power to them selves. I can not even get a list of members locally so that I can meet with them, and the upper party has no…[Read more]

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                    • No Peter you are correct, in the entire year that I have been active in the party I personally have not developed any new policy – shame on me.

                      However, I am working towards that as a member of my EDA. And yes I do know how it works because I asked people nicely and they responded.

                      As a member of the party I believe you are already a member of…[Read more]

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                      • Hey @martin.showell, there is no call to have everyone ‘develop’ policy. As we have ‘discussed’ previously, your efforts to reach out and engage in the communicty are way more important than writing resolutions. WE don’t get elected on paper, or on-line.. it is in our communities that we need to be seen and to be engaged.

                        This includes…[Read more]

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                        • I just happened on this discussion and I was struck by the angst about the policy process… It doesn’t work well, but this is exactly BECAUSE it happens at the grass-roots, EDA level. At this level everyone is a volunteer, usually with a busy life and not a lot of experience. There is often a handful of people who have been involved with the…[Read more]

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                          • excellent comment and advice michel. our eda is crowded a bit, and i expect with veterans, so i’ll have to get elected somehow (or not). either way, that will not discourage me from all things passionate.

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    • That’s right John. Apparently these comments we make back and forth are only overviewed for censorship. Nothing of what we say or advocate goes anywhere. As Andre indicated, euthanasia didn’t make it to the plenary floor, but really hasn’t spelled out how or if it can get back there. I mean, that’s it? There’s a priority list, obviously, but…[Read more]

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      • Hi Peter,
        To answer your question, I must start by clarifying the policy process for the biennial convention.

        All PTAs, Commissions, and Caucus can submit 10 resolutions for the convention. With 13 PTAs and 4 Commissions, that makes for a potential total of 180 resolutions. It is simply impossible to deal with 180 resolutions on the convention…[Read more]

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      • Well then why don’t we ask “nicely” for a clarification of the process instead of just complaining – wouldn’t that be more productive Peter?

        I’m sure that @andre-brisebois or @maryanne-kampouris will be more than happy to answer the questions.

        ————-

        André/MaryAnne, we had a policy resolution (120. Support of Euthanasia) that was…[Read more]

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        • 1) Is there an easy way for that resolution to be reintroduced or must the process start again?

          Until the policy process is renewed, you’ll have to start the process again at the EDA level. I won’t expand because you’ve indicated how familiar you were with it in your response to Peter. The online policy framework should help with this. I would…[Read more]

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          • Thanks very much André.

            I find that as I gain more knowledge on the process, I am more comfortable getting involved in it – I find it less ‘daunting’.

            As always, thank you very much for the response and the information.

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    • From André: About the process (relevant to the Ottawa 2012 Biennial Convention): http://convention.liberal.ca/about-the-process/

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      • this is good, but it’s about bureaucratized as any government department that i’ve worked in, and not grassroots. it is also out of date.

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    • interesting john. i just got elected to the exec last night, ottawa south (david mcguinty). i was more concerned in shaming them into developing a website…can’t believe there isn’t one for the EDA. the riding has been liberal for some time, but there’s no room for complacency. we don’t meet until january sometime, i hope before the…[Read more]

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    • thank you. i told them i’d do the dishwashing after the xmas party, only to find out there’s no xmas party.

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    • just raising this as a topic for an LPC platform. it’s starting to get wider coverage, and will inevitably be an issue as the population ages and becomes more infirmed. it sets out two ideological paths: on the right, the role of religion in setting the morals of the country; on the left, the role of the charter of rights and freedoms to be…[Read more]

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  • #leadershiprace
    There’s little doubt in my mind that the “leadership race” is over. No one attacks the front-runner Trudeau, so it appears that no one wants to win the “race” other than Trudeau, even though any of them may have ideas to improve the LPC they are largely ignored. Although he well may be the best candidate, he should be tried and…[Read more]

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    • I agree in the main with much of what you say here. And i don’t mean to offer excuses, we should be bold right now; after all we have nothing to lose.[ 4 place is hardly worse than 3rd] But we saw the same thing in much of the NDP debates. Everyone is afraid to give the Harper war room any tape. It is a pathetic state of affairs for the country to…[Read more]

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    • good one on ms mccrimmon :) and very good point about FNs, we should be taking over these issues and presenting viable objectives, not avoiding them.

      i agree that we really have nothing to lose by going for it, and not being cautious out of fear of the big blue machine. Harper is not personally popular, nor are many of the CPC policiies and…[Read more]

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    • The only Point i disagree on is in who tells whom what to do. Naturally I think the members have to be canvassed, won over, wooed etc. But I think the candidate should be free to go wherever they chose on policy. If they stray to far we will pull them back or simply not vote for them. I just don’t think you can put the candidate in a straitjacket…[Read more]

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    • What I would have liked to have seen, rather than asking tell me something about yourself (as in any first question job interview I’ve ever had), is what are your priorities for Canada, for Liberal Party of Canada to get back in the race, for yourself as a Leader of the greatest, most natural governing, Party this country has ever known. What I’d…[Read more]

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    • Agreed. One of things we have perhaps forgotten as liberals is – as PET most notably both said, lived and intimately understood as indisputably interwoven – that the good thing s we want to happen or change don’t just happen[ even for the NGP] they have to be continually fought for on an almost daily basis. Stuff just doesn’t happen! It’s always a…[Read more]

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    • It’s interesting that PET’s mantra was “reason over passion”. I guess in today’s context that might mean evidence-based policy over prejudice. I admired that quality in Trudeau because it’s one that only a eminent few have, certainly not I. Maybe a better way of looking at it is that the LPC members, the believers, fire up that necessary…[Read more]

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    • While I agree with much that has been posted in this thread, I just hope the Toronto session is better than the past two. Really not one candidate has persuaded me to vote for them. If JT really can galvanize the youth vote then we have a fighting chance in 2015. Except for little tidbits everyone even Justin has just skated through the first two…[Read more]

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  • There have been many “tipping points” when the federal and provincial and territorial governments have failed to seize the day. To say it’s all up to Harper is just for political points. I’m as much anti-Harper […]

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  • Peter Haley posted an update 2 years ago

    Sounds like you’re all “up in smoke”. Weed will never be legalized, just de-criminalized for minor possession which is what we have now I believe, or what we should have. How about criminalizing smoking, or the over-consumption of alcohol? Besides, who really wants to be Commissioner of the Dope Board of Canada with a bureuacracy of Heads of Pot…[Read more]

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    • Glad you think I’m “so wrong on so much”, as if you are the master’s voice. Possession of cannabis is not illegal in Canada according to Justice Edmonson of the Ontario Court. I know we are fighting against the Harper government’s irrational punishment policies, so we should make it clear that simple possession is not illegal in the Criminal…[Read more]

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    • To your comment about legalizing marijuana, as much as I like the policy, I have strong doubts that it will gain any real traction before the US starts pursuing some saner drug policies – not unless we can sell so much oil to China that we cease to care whether the US border is open or not :)
      As for priorities, as laudable as some of these are,…[Read more]

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      • With all respect, Hugh, how will the US stop us? And why can’t Canada lead the way to “saner drug policies”?

        This battle is already being fought in most states. And in many, it’s close to being won.

        We are a sovereign nation. Prohibition is stupid. I just don’t think we should not pursue this issue because it might make the US feds and few…[Read more]

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        • The US wouldn’t “stop” us but their response to legalization would be a thickening of the border which would be very bad for what is left of our manufacturing sector. They so much as said so when we last discussed decriminalization.
          All that said, yes, many states are fighting this battle already meaning that a sane federal drug policy maybe…[Read more]

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          • You’re the third person this week to say that the US would invade Canada, with military force, if we don’t give them what we want. Really? Do you really think the rest of the world, the UN, NATO (who would have to kick the US out), the Commonwealth, and for that matter China and Russia, would stand by and let that happen? Really? I don’t think the…[Read more]

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      • Of course Hugh is right, I’m glad someone is being rational here. Without the USA legalizing, which is highly unlikely, Canada will not, at least in my lifetime.

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        • Of course? Huh? Why? Why can’t we legalize marijuana if the US doesn’t? Do you think they really care? What difference would it make to them? Do we only pass laws that are approved by the US? Nonsense.

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          • We are far ahead of the USA in many areas of social responsibility…look at the division over Obamacare, a watered-down version of our health care. It’s not merely the passing of a law, it’s the impact it has across Noth America and on every individual. Of course they care, do you think we’re just an isolated tundra? When there was prohibition…[Read more]

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    • No, marijuana has not been decriminalized in Canada. Please check your facts before posting. Various laws have been “struck down” by various provincial courts as unconstitutional (mostly with respect to access to medical marijuana) however, the federal government continues to appeal every such decision. The possession laws are still on the books…[Read more]

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      • I was referring to the bureaucratization of yet another entity in canada, when i jokingly stated the Dope Board of Canada. Those without a sense of humour are more likely the MASTERS here.

        You really think LEGALIZING marijuana is feasible, and is of concern to 10’s of millions of Canadians? Wait, you DO have a sense of humour.

        Why don’t you…[Read more]

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        • Sorry, you’re just not very funny. And this is not a topic that lends itself to humour, in my opinion. Thousands of Canadians every year arrested for a non-violent, victim-less activity, personal freedoms stomped on, billions of dollars wasted on a “war” that can’t be won, billions of dollars lining the pockets of gun toting gang members – yeah,…[Read more]

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          • You still haven’t shown your face, so why should I get YOUR facts straight. Kids start with beer because it’s commercialized and legal and cool, and may even be condoned by parents looking the other way.

            Why do you say decriminalization is ”stupid”? It’s a step in the right direction. No one should be consdiered a criminal becasue he/she tokes…[Read more]

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            • Before I respond … really … what do you mean by “show my face”? I have no idea what you mean …

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              • oh that’s YOU? all pimped up ? sorry.

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                • That picture is from my wedding day, Peter. A very important and beautiful day for me. My wife thinks I looked quite dashing. Thank you so much for your comment.

                  Your attempts to be rude and insulting lend so much credence to your completely flawed comments. Really. Keep up the good work Peter. You can see how many people on this site appreciate…[Read more]

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                  • I apologize for my comment on your photo.

                    And the drinking comment was, once again, a very poor attempt at humour as we were discussing alcohol prohibition in the USA and you didn’t seem to see any relationship between organized crime that moved across the border and the possiblilty of something similar happening if Canada were to legalize…[Read more]

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                    • 1. I accept your apology on the photo comment. My wife, on the other, has some choice words for you that I will not post here.

                      2. I do not accept your “excuse” for the drinking comment. My response to your assertion that we can’t legalize marijuana unless the US does was “Why not? We did it with alcohol prohibition”. It was at that point that you…[Read more]

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                      • First of all, one suggestion. Debating points, or trying to win over an opponent in an argument, are never achieved by repeatedly saying the other person is wrong. This is a topic that is not black and white, right or wrong, otherwise all would be in agreement and pot wouild be legal.

                        Secondly, I wish there were lawyers out there who would…[Read more]

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                        • Point of clarification: Resolution 117 on the legalization and regulation of marijuana, co-sponsored by the Young Liberals of Canada and LPC(BC), was a priority resolution at the Ottawa 2012 biennial convention. The resolution was debated at the policy plenary and was adopted by delegates with 77% approval. Consequently, it is now deemed to be…[Read more]

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                          • I understand. However, to say this “resolution” is cast in stone is misleading. I don’t know who my “delegate” was, but he or she did not consult with the members he/she represented. I think it will be a hard choice for any leader to make this resolution part of the LPC platform for the next election, without further consulatation and perhaps…[Read more]

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                            • You bring up a legitimate point and I encourage you to raise it with your riding association’s executive. As per our Constitution, every riding had to hold a delegate selection meeting open to their riding in order to select their 20 delegates for the biennial convention. We at the national office respect the autonomy of ridings and the…[Read more]

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                              • Thank you for the explanation Andre. The process is just as legitimate a concern as is the topic.

                                Let me make one thing clear on the legalization of marijuana. I am not opposed per se, even though I favour full decriminalization, but as it is favoured by 50 percent of Canadians it is also opposed by the remaining half. It is a contentious…[Read more]

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                            • Comment on my comment, how rude. But, David McGuinty is my MP, and a potential leader. It would be interesting to hear his views on this topic.

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                        • The only thing I have repeatedly said you are “wrong” about is your assertion that marijuana is legal in Ontario. I keep saying it because a) you are wrong and b) you refuse to accept that “fact”. I have proven that fact by offering several posts showing that people are still being arrested and charged with possession of marijuana in Ontario. As…[Read more]

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                          • You’re like a dog with a bone, there is no point in having a rational discussion with you.

                            Why would I admit to being “wong” when I say I favour decriminalization over legalization, and that we have de facto decriminalization at least in Ontario because to my knowledge there have been no convicted crimes for simple possession. The police harrass…[Read more]

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                            • So, you should be allowed to come onto this forum and make things up and spread untruths and … be left alone? Not likely.

                              Marijuana is a crime in Canada and in Ontario. The police charge people with possession everyday. Having you tell people that this is not so makes people believe that this is no longer an issue. I can’t accept that that,…[Read more]

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                • It’s time I jump in here because this thread is becoming too personal and too far off the actual topic. Please discuss the idea and not the person and please be respectful, open-minded and civil in your discussions.

                  I also remind you of the Liberal Community’s #guidelines : ”Please note that comments are moderated with the goal of stimulating an…[Read more]

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    • I see paranoia has set in…a common occurence with weed. Of course, I never inhaled, cough, cough. Damn I’m hungry though.

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    • I suppose I am “just-in”. Not true dough. This Justin Trudeau (imposter) has been a Liberal supporter all my life, even though I didn’t see the need to be a card-carrying one. I joined, and contributed financially as much as I could, to stop Harper. And I am entitiled to my opinions, as feeble as you think they may be, as anyone. How about the…[Read more]

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    • Improving community health and safety in Canada through evidence-based policies on illegal drugs – http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/501/455

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      • Good paper, and a working document from which to think of consequences and actions. Evidence-based policy developent always makes for best policies.

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    • Agreed. We are a democratic party afterall.

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