• Ray Larson posted an update 2 years, 4 months ago

    Who are you signing up today? http://www.liberal.ca/supporter/

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    • Sending personal emails to friends and family is an easy way to start. There’s also some text to get you started. Just click on the envelope under the form to see it appear in your email program. http://www.liberal.ca/supporter/

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    • Although i am in favour of the ’supporter category,’ you bring up a valid point. While i believe Bob Rae is a sincere Liberal, there are NDP trolls here who do push and pull our Party un-naturally to their level.

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    • Agree with you John – and I keep saying this same thing over and over again.

      Hey, it’s great that we’ve opened up the party and we want to get other Canadians involved in our process, but WHY THE HECK SHOULD THEY SIGN UP? Please give me a reason other than ”you can choose the next Liberal Party leader”.

      Work needs to first be done on just who we are and what we stand for, then we can ask others to support us. As of right now, there’s absolutely no reason for someone to declare themselves as an LPC supporter.

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    • They are the one’s who enjoy protesting rather than presenting. They prefer portions of votes rather than whole one’s. And they are the one’s who would rather complain than compromise.

      Don’t get me wrong, i loves the Greens and would sooner vote for them than the Conservatives.

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    • I’m with John on this one. I’ll start encouraging my friends and family to sign up once we actually have some policies and/or a platform to direct their attentions to. Inviting them right now is a little like inviting someone onto the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. You should always get your house in order before inviting people over for dinner.

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      • Jonathan: Please read my comment below … we are inviting supporters to join us to help decide on our policies and platform, to help us choose the leader that will champion their particular causes and issues. I think you’ve got the cart before the horse. Why ask people to join ”after” we’ve decided who we are and what our platform will be … why not invite them to help choose the direction we will take?

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        • Martin,
          I think both positions have merit. I agree with you that there is value in encouraging people to join the Party enticing them with the opportunity to participate in choosing our leader and in shaping the direction the Party will take. But this would require us to have already implemented an effective means through which to actually allow members/supporters to effectively participate in the Party, which remains far from coming into fruition. Moreover, in my opinion at least, I actually think the majority of people tend to join a Party because they respect the leader and because the direction the Party is taking reflects their hopes and interests. Naturally, we should not discourage those from joining who are seeking to choose the leader and shape the future of the Party, but if we keep this car in neutral for too long, I don’t think there will be much of a Party left to join. Now, I acknowledge that I have no evidence to support this claim, but because of this position, I think the focus on membership growth over fundamental Party transformation and policy development is putting the cart before the horse. I prefer to join organizations and political parties in the same manner I buy magazines, because I like the editing, writing, and the articles appeal to my own thoughts and interests. I would not buy a magazine subscription on the promise that I get to choose the editor and content, especially where the means of doing so do not yet exist, any more than I would join a party without knowing who will lead us and where we are going. All this being said, I’m sure you’d agree that what we really need to do is a lot of both, the only difference being that I think a focus on implementing change will encourage more people to join the Party than the promise of more participation in the process without the means to achieve this goal yet implemented.

          Thanks for your comments,

          Jon Lawrence

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      • Liberal Policy development can be found at http://enfamille.liberal.ca. We have a policy on almost everything you can possibly imagine there and you may contribute more. Cheers.

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    • @Farham-Mohamed @John-Shavluk

      I think there is a great reason for people to sign up as LPC Supporters, and I think you both mention it (but maybe don’t “get” it) … ”to help choose the next leader of the party!”

      What better reason to get involved? Once the leadership campaign starts, the candidates will have to come forward and state what policies they want to make part of our platform. They will have tell us what issues are important to them and what their solutions will be. And they will have to go on record with these policies and proposals.

      We, members and supporters, will then be allowed to choose who we support, which policies we support, and through that, what our platform will be moving into the next election.

      Which candidates will support moving forward on legalization of marijuana? Which candidates will promise to introduce electoral reform? Who will step forward with a plan to curtail abuse of parliament through omnibus legislation and limited debate? I’m dying to find out! I can’t wait to help pick the leader that I think best supports my key issues and areas of interest.

      Don’t you get it? We get to decide the direction of the party by choosing it’s leader … instead of being told the direction, we and any supporters who join us, we get to help choose!

      Why would you want the party to come out now and say “this is what we are – this what we will be for the next 5 years, regardless of who our leader is” – why even bother having a leadership contest?

      What better reason can there be to get involved and participate than being allowed a say in who we are and what we stand for?

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      • FTR Martin,

        I do ”get” it, I’m just taking the outsiders’ viewpoint and trying to think of ways we can be productive and actually gain support.

        I’m the External VP for YLs in BC so I’ve gone out and spoken with non-Lib and non-politically involved friends and the response I’ve been getting in regards to the Supporter campaign is ”why should I join if all I’m doing is voting for the leader?”

        I believe too much emphasis is being put on the leadership race and not the party itself. Yes, we need a great leader in order to lead this Party, motivate Canadians, and gain support. But at the same time, the Party itself needs to motivate Canadians in order to gain support – this cannot be the task of one person alone, unless they have the qualities of our democratic leader to the south.

        The point I was simply trying to make in my original post, was that each post or tweet I see telling people to become a supporter simply says ”so you can choose the next leader”. We need to work on our messaging but in order to have that messaging we need to focus on the underlying objectives and platform for which our Party stands for.

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        • I hear what you are saying Farham. My point is that in helping choose the next leader, you ALSO get to help choose the direction the party will be taking for the next few years and what the platform will be in the next election.

          The Liberal party has adopted many, many policy resolutions over the past few years (see the post from Maryanne above to find them all). We know what we stand for (in principal) … what we don’t know is which of the those policies will become planks in our platform. We, and any supporters that join us, have the opportunity to help determine that platform by electing the leader that promises to champion and fight for those policies that we feel should be part of the platform.

          To use John’s cause as a good example, if we get 500,000 supporters who all insist that they will only vote for a leader who promises to make the legalization of marijuana a key plank in our next election campaign, well then any candidate that comes out and states that to the LPC members and supporters and in the public forum, is going to have a clear advantage over any that ignore the issue.

          Put another way, instead of supporting a party that is TELLING you ”this is what we are”, you are being given an opportunity to help DECIDE ”what we are”.

          To me, this is the message we should be getting out and this is how we answer the question ”why should I become a supporter”.

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          • You’re preaching to the choir buddy.

            So then why is it so difficult for messaging like this to go out?

            Farhan (n, not m)

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            • (Oops, sorry for spelling your name wrong … weak eyes and bad typing)

              Good question … I agree that the message could be improved … it seems obvious to me that part of choosing a leader necessarily involves choosing a leader that represents the best chance for your issues to be addressed … but maybe it’s not that obvious to everyone.

              And, ”my message” may not be the one the party wants to go out … I don’t know, but I do agree just saying ”help pick our leader” is not a great call to action.

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    • John, I hear you talking all the time about Marijuana on here. You want to let others decide our position on this for you and sit back and wait for others to tell you what we stand for? Instead you could be bringing people you know care about this country and care about shaping it into the country they want. This is the time to do that. That is the opportunity before us.

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      • Good point Stephane. some of us [me too] may look like we are trying to have it both ways – complaining the party isn’t taking positions for us, and perhaps then complaining when it does [ i must have missed that part]. But from my pov i hear people here at least asking for leadership on some of these issues.
        My main axe to grind is the environment. So far i see us [on gateway for instance] sitting on fences while the NDP take stands. Those stands are hardly unchallengeable, but we don’t even do that[ exception Mr Dion. Good on him] They have the merit of being clear positions taken, and there can be little doubt that their clarity[ they are clearly defending the people of BC's right to have a major say in the pipeline over Harper's phony national priority rhetoric] is more of a draw, particularly for young people. than our seemingly opacity and silence.
        Yes i’m grateful the party is opening up in order to better test the temperature of the nations political mood/desires, but it will also take leadership on tough issues to convince many who presently waver that the LPC has anything useful to say to this country anymore.
        Sorry if you find that old fashioned thinking, but i think you will find i am not alone.
        I do not regard the supporters issue as zero sum proposition; put something in if you want something out. Rather, some will bring something cuz they can and that’s the kind of people they are; some will come if they see real leadership, because they value good leadership.

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    • John:

      You asked: “Why?” should people come out and become Supporters of the LPC. So, I gave you a reason: “To participate in the selection of our next leader and thereby take an active role in determining the platform for the Liberal Party in the next election”.

      Assuming your “costs” are accurate (I don’t think the board has decided on spending yet – let alone announced it), that money will be easily raised by candidates that appeal to enough voters to make a legitimate run at the leadership instead of those that will be nothing but a distraction. Sorry, that’s just the way politics works.

      Yes, the Leader has veto power over policy, why would we force a leader to support a policy he/she is not comfortable with? But to become leader they will have to publicly support enough of the major policies desired by a majority of members and supporters. What are you suggesting? That after they win the leadership they will turn around and veto themselves?

      I happen to love The Three Stooges. To each his own.

      I agree that we need a core set of policies to work on – we have them: http://convention.liberal.ca/files/2012/01/Ottawa-2012_Policy-Resolutions-OUTCOME.pdf and those are just from the last convention – there are many, many more policy resolutions passed by the membership over the years – in fact we have policy coming out our ears.

      What we don’t have is a platform and for that we need to elect a leader that will work to create the platform that the members and supporters vote for through our vote for the leader. That’s why people should consider becoming a supporter – to be part of the process, part of deciding the platform.

      You asked “Why?”. I gave you a reason: “To participate in the selection of our next leader and thereby take an active role in determining the platform for the Liberal Party in the next election”. I have nothing else to say….

      …except…go or stay John…no offense but I think it makes little difference to the party as a whole. I will say that I for one, am getting tired of your threats to “leave” whenever things don’t go your way

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    • I’m not signing anyone up today to become a supporter. Our riding’s priority is to invite existing members to become Victory Fund donors. I feel like the real appeal of becoming a supporter will kick in when the Leadership race is called. That being said, I will still be pitching the idea to individuals who seem to be on the fence about the Liberal Party.

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      • I’m presently organizing a phone bank for our riding and we’ll be reaching out to all the low hanging fruit for VF. Following this initial activity, I plan on organizing initiatives to reach out beyond our base, and recruiting supporters will be key.

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        • Bravo Christine! Well done. We need more people like you. The Liberal Party needs more People, Passion, Principles and Policies. Together we are building a foundation to move Canada forward.

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    • Hi guys, good conversation! Every member, every supporter and every Canadian are going to have their own reasons for joining or not joining the party. We cannot be everything to everyone but we can take some bold stances and do what we feel is right then communicate those stances to people who care about those issues. What we have learned from our Liberal partners around the world and in the dems in the US is there is no policy that will galvanize more than a small percentage of the population so we need to make sure we understand the electorate well and engage them on the Liberal issues, values or specific policies that resonate with them. Right now the party has a policy on almost everything you can image and we need to continue to develop even more policy and communicate that to Canadians. All of our messaging should be tested and the segmented, targeted messaging should also speak to the compelling national narrative that is build on our vision and core values. We are in a difficult position right now because we as members are the keepers of those vision and values and we are the ones developing the narrative because there is no professionals and no permanent leadership to do that. Basically it’s all up to us right now because there is no saviour. There is no one who is going to sweep in and fix all of our internal issues and make the Canadian people love us. We have to turn the Liberal Party into something better than it was before. A party of substance with great vision, values and a great brand to go along with it. We need great people, policies, training, organization, communications, data and marketing. Cheers!

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    • You do have every right to be here, John… you paid your dues so you are allowed to trash and bad-mouth the party and the leadership and the members all you want. You are completely within your rights to continue to rant and rave and insult. So, you just keep at it John and see what it does for your cause. About as much as it did for your cause at all the other parties you have tried it at, I’ll wager.

      BUT… You’re the one who keeps threatening to leave, John. No one is asking you to go. All I was saying is, go ahead, leave us alone until January, we don’t care one way or the other – just stop the idle threats.

      And btw I’m not your ”buddy”.

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    • You asked: “Why?” should people come out and become Supporters of the LPC. So, for the third time now: “To participate in the selection of our next leader and thereby take an active role in determining the platform for the Liberal Party in the next election”.

      Oh and I love the link you posted …

      ”Submitted by John Shavluk on … Comment removed due to violation of the site’s Terms of Service.”

      I think there are 4 of them on that post alone! … good work getting your point across, John. Ever think that maybe your style is little rude and over-the-top? Ever think that you should maybe listen more instead of screaming all the time? Ever think…well you get the point (or not).

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    • Come on John, let’s be realistic here.

      If I get what you are trying to convey, it’s basically that you don’t feel we should be looking for support because we don’t have a completely articulated platform presented for an election in 3 years?

      Or that we should not be promoting ourselves to a larger audience because our smaller ”more dedicated” audience has not sufficiently had their grievances admired.

      I don’t want to misread for fear of soliloquies in return but I just feel your passion could be better directed towards articulating policy options in a clear and forward thinking way.

      We can spend a lot of time stomping our feet saying everything is wrong, but it is not really going to go anywhere. – Beating Pangloss on the head isn’t going to make the engine rev’ up any faster.

      I think inviting individuals to the table and giving them a feeling of ownership in the Liberal movement, no matter how great or small, is very much on course. Why stay small, this is not a time to recoil. Might as well give every possible opportunity for connection to our party a chance. There are many people connected to our core values and these are the people who will support…

      If you care about the party you would want to encourage people to get a little closer to it, to join you in your discussions – supporter is one step closer to donor and member. Don’t closer the shutters, don’t close the blinds.

      Grassroots may not be a major factor on the mass comms front and E.time. BUT Grassroots does matter when it comes to building membership and donor support. This is the personal side, this is where EDAs can start bringing people in and giving them a place in the party. You can shape policy, but it is not easy for good reason. If we want evidence based and middle of the road – it, takes evidence and A LOT of discussion…and indeed, is rather cumbersome at best. But that is democracy, it’s hard, expensive and sometimes very frustrating – but ultimately worth it.

      Also on the pragmatic side, there is a certain sort of communication methodology behind this supporter push, which is absolutely invaluable to community building and mass comms. == I want to send you an email ;)

      All the Best!

      -Sarah

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    • Here’s some more information on supporters: http://liberaluniversity.liberal.ca/supporters/ Liberal University is growing so take the time to browse around.

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    • I like your passion, clearly I’m a fan of being a little feisty.

      Just wish to see it pointed in a direction other then ourselves. Not that I don’t think one should not be internally critical, it’s just that I think the great challenge is not only finding the problems but offering solutions.

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    • So, John, if you want to advance the policy of legalizing marijuana, a policy adopted by the liberal party but not yet turned into platform, then the only way to make sure that happens is to elect a leader of the party that promises to turn that policy into platform for the 2015 election.

      The way to get that leader elected is to have as many members AND supporters as we can to force our leadership candidates to face this issue and to go on the public record during the leadership campaign as promising to run the next election on a platform that includes that policy.

      So, doesn’t it make sense that you would want to attract as many Liberal supporters as possible that also support the legalization of marijuana? If you have all these contacts and this army of citizens ready to act on this issue, then for goodness sake John! This is your (and their) great opportunity to force the issue! Force the next leader of the LPC to publicly state they will campaign on this policy!

      What an opportunity to change the country, John!

      But, your first response to this post from Stéphane, a call to enlist supporters, was “I won’t be sending any supporter emails just yet… “. Why? This doesn’t make sense to me. The more supporters you can get that agree with you, the more likely your cause will finally be realized!

      Use that army of yours to choose the next leader… a leader that supports the policy. Makes sense to me, John.

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    • I don’t know John, the definition of ”we” is more than one … and there seem to be at least 6 people who agree with me.

      I’ll also just say John (again, I have said this before) I fully support your cause, I fully agree with the legalization policy, and I fully agree with getting brought to the front of policy platform. I just disagree with your methods.

      You should try to realize who is on your side John. I’m trying to help, but you insist on name-calling, belittling, and laughing at me, even when I support your cause – very frustrating.

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    • Well John, it is your choice and the choice of your group whether they take part in electing the next liberal leader or not.

      You can’t have done this in 1978 or 1993 John because the LPC did not allow “supporters” to vote for the party leadership. So, things have changed now and a door of opportunity has opened.

      I don’t really care about Mulcair … he and the NDP have never supported “legalization” only “decimalization” and we both agree that decimalization is NOT the right solution. Mulcair’s twisted logic is that … because decriminalization is a bad idea, I won’t support it … instead he should be saying … because decriminalization is a bad idea I now support legalization … but the NDP have never been serious about this issue, and I’m sure you know that.

      I don’t see any “fakery”, John. The liberal party spoke up and voted for this policy resolution at the last convention. However, adopting a policy resolution at the convention does not automatically make that policy part of the party platform – it’s just the first battle – now we have to speak up again (with the help of … “supporters”) to force the leadership to accept the will of the party … and we can do that by controlling who gets elected as the next leader.

      If all these people you have on your side go and start a new party, and if that new party’s only platform plank is legalization of marijuana, I’m sorry, but in my opinion, you will lose the election and nothing will change. But if those people become supporters in the LPC they may be able to force our next leader to support this policy – that’s the second battle.

      Then comes the big (final) battle … can we get Canada to vote for the party that supports legalization? Maybe yes, maybe no. But we need to win that second battle first and get the next LPC leader to agree to support this policy.

      If all these people you speak of don’t get involved in picking our next leader then there is a good chance that we will not have the numbers needed to force the leadership candidates to address this issue.

      And if these people sit by and watch while others elect the next LPC leader then I don’t think they can complain if that leader doesn’t support their desired policies. That’s just the way it works. So, why not have all these people at least ”try” to force this issue? It doesn’t cost them anything … and maybe, just maybe, this time will be different.

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