Résultats pour le hashtag #supplymanagement
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Murray Todd posted an update posté il y a 2 mois 2 semaines
Supply Management – A Response
Martha Hall Findlay’s website talks about a number of policies, most of which are pretty much what one would anticipate during a leadership campaign.
The one policy which I think we should be careful with is her notion of dismantling supply management of dairy, poultry, and eggs.
Supply…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted an update posté il y a 4 mois
#supplymanagement
Here we are again discussing the Supply Management System. This time it is triggered by the letter floating on Internet. The letter was send by our Liberal MP, Wayne Easter to Martha Hall Findlay.Study after study has found that the system is broken. A report issued by the Montreal Economic Institute last August concludes…[En afficher davantage]
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#supplymanagement @wayne-easter
I have a few questions for The Hon. Wayne Easter and I hope, that if he honestly cares about what this party wants, as he claims in his letter to MHF, that he will take the time to respond to us all here on the community page at Liberal.ca:
QUESTION: Do you, or anyone in your immediate family, still own a dairy…[En afficher davantage]
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Wayne Easter in one of the links to his twitter (found in Martin’s post) refers to the 2009 Liberal convention priority policy resolution mandating party support for Supply Management System.
Here are the resolutions; http://djsvoutqo4b1q.cloudfront.net/files/2010/05/2009-policy-resolutions-en.pdf
There is no reference to the SMS in any of the…[En afficher davantage]-
Jarek – Mr Easter actually replied to my questions (!) here on Liberal.ca (look for the #supplymanagement hashtag)
In his response he says that the resolution he was discussing was from the 2005 convention (#33). I misread the tweet – he actually says “It was voted at the PREVIOUS convention to 2009.” – strange way to word it but …
Please…[En afficher davantage]
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In order to find answers provided by Mr Easter in response to Martin’s extremely well articulated questions the following link is provided http://www.liberal.ca/activity/p/24065/
I applaud Mr Easter decision to provide us with his view. I have not expected he would take time to discuss his letter to Ms Findlay. He definitely deserves the…[En afficher davantage]
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I refered to the Caucus Accountability Report presended to the 2009 convention which was the report related to how caucus handled the priority resolutins from the previous policy convention. I would expect you would want caucus members to fight for the policies of the Party adopted at convention. I would expect the same from leadership candidates.
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Caucus members?
Or critics?-
Our Caucus members not onlly represent their constituents in the House, they also represent the Party’s policies, which are established through a thorough process of research , debate and finally a vote at National Convention.
The Leader of the Party must also report to the membership on the measures that the Caucus has taken to implement the…[En afficher davantage]
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This brings up an interesting question that I have tried to find an answer to before. Perhaps you have some insight Mr Easter or @maryanne-kampouris can assist …
Is there (and if there is, how does it work) a process for the periodic review of policy resolutions in the LPC?
Surely our policy must be somewhat flexible when the passage of time…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin,
In the first year after Biennial, the Party has been encouraging EDA’s to engage local constituents (liberal and non-liberal alike) in discussions that would identify issues and policy proposals that matter. The second year is to be one of developing the policy proposals that best fit the needs of Canadian citizens.
During that…[En afficher davantage]
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Thank you Maryanne. I am looking forward to seeing the new tools that the Liberal Party will be unveiling to assist with policy discussion. I am especially cheered to hear that we will be providing a “summary” of existing policy as a starting point. I believe this is much needed as even very active LPC members seem to have difficulty referring…[En afficher davantage]
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Wayne, Thank you very much for taking part in our discussion. You involvement in it makes it much more substantive. Knowing that a member of our caucus is listening to us and is engaged in dialog with us very encouraging to all of us who care about the future of our Party and our great country.
I’m assuming that the item related to the Supply…[En afficher davantage]
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This sounds more like heckling than substantive discussion.
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I’m sorry you feel that a member of the LPC asking legitimate questions of a member of his caucus constitutes “heckling”. And what shall we call your comment? Does it help the conversation in anyway? Does it add any new information? What is it’s purpose Patricia? What word would you use to describe it?
Mr Easter who was nice enough to…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin,
Supply management is not a subsidy in the usual sense of the word. It is a form f regulation of the market such that there is stability. I think it is a good thing that dairy farmers incomes are relatively healthy – they are greater than those incomes of farmers in non-supply systems I would hazard. So why would we want to throw them…[En afficher davantage]-
Ray, thank you for your comments. Yes, I understand how SM works. You are correct it is not a subsidy in the “usual sense of the word” i.e. it is not direct government money. Rather, it is a subsidy paid directly by the consumer. An amount that is difficult to analyze due to the complexity of the system. This “subsidy” arises from what in any…[En afficher davantage]
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Well stated! Let’s support leadership candidates who promote evidence-based policy and a fearless commitment to open and informed debate and inquiry on what best serves the common good!
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The Montreal Economic Institute appears to be another neocon think-tank. It has connections to the federal Conservative party. Wiki reports. ”The MEI was criticized by Le Devoir and universities about the ideological neutrality of their research.”
The Conference Board of Canada is another think tank which has a better reputation but has also…[En afficher davantage]
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Patricia, my information about CETA is based on this article published on January 28, 2013 in Globe and Mail. Here are quotes from it:
“Decisions on the remaining tradeoffs will likely be made by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who has staked his Conservative government’s economic strategy on getting a deal. Ottawa says free trade with Europe…[En afficher davantage]
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I do not normally accept newspaper articles at face value. And what the Harper government says has very little credibility with me. At the moment, I do not have time to research the issue further to be able to comment intelligently. But I do have some respect for yet another lobby group – the Council of Canadians – who have expressed concerns…[En afficher davantage]
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You mention a “report” by Wayne Easter – can you please provide a link to this “report” – I am not aware that he has produced one. There is his “letter” to MHF – but that hardly constitutes a report and his assumptions and assertions in that letter are not backed up by any evidence I can see. And let us not forget — HE IS a dairy…[En afficher davantage]
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Wayne
This blog is not a proper forum to discuss issues of such complexity. In any event, I have raised legitimate concerns to hysteria demanding an end to SM to which there has been no substantive objections raised.
Instead it seems you have mastered Harper’s strategy of attack, attack on matters of little substance in order to distract…[En afficher davantage]
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Patricia, are you addressing your response to Wayne?
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Wayne
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You appear to be confused Patricia … your comment would appear to be directed at me (Martin Showell) not at ”Wayne” who you addressed the comment to.
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Patricia (I assume the above comment was directed at me and not Wayne Easter?)
I am going to break my response into two comments – one addressing your continued rude, mean-spirited, aggressive and unhelpful attacks on me personally and another addressing the bits you have actually added to the discussion on supply management.
(NOTE: I apologize…[En afficher davantage]
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… now to discuss the actual “meat” of you response …
I do not see any “hysteria” – what does that mean? I personally am not hysterical and have never “demanding an end to SM”. So, I’m not sure who that is addressed to.
Thank you for agreeing that supply management should be studied. This has been my main point all along. Perhaps you…[En afficher davantage]
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http://mnc2013.ca/speakers/youri-chassin-mei/
Jarek, i’m not saying that right wing think tanks don’t have a right to to chime in on the national economic debate. But i hope you are aware that it is expressly conservative. I have no idea who this gent is, but do you see who is endorsing him? The hilariously immodestly named Manning centre for…[En afficher davantage]
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Hi Ken: SM has been studied by scholarly folk a good deal because of its apparent success where others were failing miserably. Unfortunately agricultural economist will not wait for citizens who also have a stake in SM to get up to speed. That is why propaganda tanks get involved. To the great credit of Laval, one of their agriculture econ.…[En afficher davantage]
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Lloyd: I think Mayrice Doyon is one of very few who can assess our SMS and compare it with other countries approach. Thank you for pointing me to his work.
You commented on some aspects of my previous posts :-)). Taking it into consideration, I decided to delete two of them.-
Jarek: You are welcome. I cannot see LPC listening to one consultant. I have a difficulty, as does Doyon, with the notion that innovation amount to increased size of dairies, that is, return to scale, rather than innovation, because increasing size is a trend. It’s already happening and economists are finding ways for intermediate scale to work…[En afficher davantage]
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Wayne Easter posted an update posté il y a 4 mois
In response to the questions raised by Martin Showell I would relay the following:
Q1: While no one in my immediate family owns a dairy farm, I was a dairy farmer and vividly recall my neighbours and fellow farmers discussions of the days of the open market in milk when it was boom and bust. Supply management brought…[En afficher davantage]
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Thank very much for responding Mr. Easter! Sadly, I was surprised. I say sadly because very few of our caucus members seem to be interested in contributing on this site. A pleasant surprise indeed and I applaud you!
You responses are appreciated but I am afraid in most cases, I find them difficult to accept.
Mostly I believe that we need to look…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin
With the weather terrible here again on PEI today I will make another stab at responding to your additional comments.
While the initial legislation for supply management was introduced some 40 years ago many changes have been made to the workings of supply management through the provincial marketing boards. I would suggest that because of…[En afficher davantage]
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Again, thank you for taking the time to respond.
Perhaps then it is time to stop “tweaking” the program and correct what is wrong with it at a basic level – it is ant-free-market and protectionist. It creates a monopoly by using price-fixing and quotas. It is controlled by what is commonly referred to as a “cartel”. Is this the Canadian (or…[En afficher davantage]
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Thanks Wayne… for sharing insights based on your past experience as a former dairy farmer and your above average knowledge of how Supply Marketing affects the dairy industry. Most appreciated. I’d like to expand a bit on your response to Q3. In particular, I quite agree with your point that the retail price of milk will vary across the country.…[En afficher davantage]
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The disparity in the price of milk in Canada, day-to-day and location-to-location, is troubling and is perhaps worthy of a separate investigation all together. I think it would be nice to make sure that the basics of healthy diet for children are kept within reasonable, affordable limits and not left to whimsy of retailers.
However, the actual…[En afficher davantage]
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‘Investigation’ will not result in better milk pricing nor will it reveal some unknown conspiracy that dairy farmers or dairies or retailers are somehow unfairly controlling the price of dairy products. There is no hidden agenda or conspiracy.
Three or four decades ago, there were many independently-owned dairies operating within smaller…[En afficher davantage]
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Thank you Douglas, all very interesting. However, I was not suggesting that there was any kind of “conspiracy”. It seems that both you and Mr Easter use a different dictionary than I do. The one I use defines “investigate” as “to examine, study, or inquire into” – it in no way presupposes a conspiracy.
My suggestion was that perhaps an…[En afficher davantage]
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While I agree the price of milk is lower in the US, the Numbeo site is not particularly accurate. The price shown for Windsor is now $1.69 which indicates to me it can be easily manipulated. The prices are collected by amateurs, without any clear instructions on how to collect them. The US site will ask for a price per gallon (3.8 litres) so…[En afficher davantage]
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Yes, I agree that site is not terribly accurate. But, as I stated in my comment, the fact that there IS a disparity between prices across the border is consistent – the AMOUNT of the disparity is hard to tack down. But, regardless of what sources I access and from my personal experience the cost of dairy is considerably lower in the US.
Those…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin;
When you buy a gallon for under $3.00 in the US, how many liters is that?
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When I was raised on a farm, we fed chickens, milked 8 cows and many, many barn cats. The manure was piled behind the barn, composted and then returned to the fields. Animal husbandry relied on the sage acquired knowledge of Dad.
Now? We are surrounded by agri business. Milking is done by automation, 12 at a time. Liquid fertilizer is…[En afficher davantage]
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3.785 litres = 1 US gallon
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John: 1 US gallon is equivalent to 3.785 liters
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I would encourage every participant in this discussion to get and read two reports. The conclusions from those reports are quoted below.
1. The Conference Board of Canada Report – Making Milk The Practices, Players, and Pressures Behind Dairy Supply Management
“While the system does create more predictability, it also works at cross-purposes…[En afficher davantage]
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My oh my Jarek you do call to those that never did like the supply management system and always tried some reason to attack it. With respect to the conference Board of Canada report they fail to recognize the competitiveness that is within Canada’s dairy industry and the absolute need to be constantly gaining efficiencies. This is a result of the…[En afficher davantage]
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I think that we made our voices heard. I have to admit that I ignored Maurice Doyon’s report as it’s my understanding that it was commissioned by Dairy Farmers of Canada.
I found the position taken by John Manly – former Liberal industry minister, former finance minister, former foreign minister, former deputy prime minister, current chief…[En afficher davantage]
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And good to have the exchange. Who does my friend John Manley work for? The very folks who would be able to exploit both farmers and consumers if SM was lost. In fairness John was not a supporter of SM before he went over to the corporate side.
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That is an incredibly cheap shot Mr Easter. I had expected better. I’m sure I don’t have to point out to you Mr. Manley’s distinguished record of public service and non-partisan participation in service to his county. Are you seriously suggesting that Mr Manley’s comments are in some way self-serving? That we should dismiss his insights…[En afficher davantage]
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I believe those of us who have participated in this discussion have shown respect for each other’s personal opinions without personally attacking one another. Martin’s reference to Mr. Easter’s comments as “vote mongering opinion” was inappropriate. I suggest an apology is in order. Offering something useful to the discussion is welcome.…[En afficher davantage]
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Douglas – Amen!
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Let me say right off the bat that I have shown Mr Easter EVERY COURTESY AND RESPECT THROUGHOUT THIS DISCUSSION – Please read my comments before buying into Douglas’s drive-by attack on me personally (not the first nor the last I expect).
HOWEVER, in the event that Mr Easter also misread or misinterpreted my remarks, I sincerely apologize for…[En afficher davantage]
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I have no interest in singling Martin out for anything. My “motive” was simple – that I viewed the comment as inappropriate because it appeared to me that it was aimed at Wayne. Without further clarification, how would anyone know it wasn’t.
Martin wonders why I didn’t also chastise Wayne for his earlier comment … “Who does my friend John…[En afficher davantage]
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Well I’m glad I could clear that up for you Douglas. And of course I could not know that Mr Easter and Mr Manley are friends – although I would not stay friends for long with someone that accused me on a public site of have ulterior motives and working against the interests of Canadians to benefit my new bosses. Perhaps Mr Easter should think…[En afficher davantage]
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Thank-you Mr. Easter for educating us on the intricacies of our dairy supply system – as well as its benefits.
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Martin – Douglas – Pat Strong words and strong impressions are not a problem. Actually Martin, John and I remain friends but you couldn’t know that. I firmly believe he is wrong on SM and i very firmly believe that the big corporations will end up exploiting both consumers and producers for the benefit of shareholders if SM is lost. In any event…[En afficher davantage]
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Thank-you for that. You have indeed show good grace and patience. SM is just a small piece of a broader issue which needs to be discussed – free trade – and, in particular, both the CETA and TPP which are currently under negotiation. The Council of Canadians have been warning us about what Harper is about to give away – and much of it is in…[En afficher davantage]
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Mr Easter, as I said above, I apologize if my words to you were in anyway inappropriate. It was certainly not my intention. I feel I have been taken out to the shed and soundly whooped by Douglas and Pat (a not so uncommon occurrence from these two particular Liberals :-)
However, I still don’t understand why Mr Manley’s opinions should be…[En afficher davantage]
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John is a great guy and was an excellent Minister (compare the Ministers of today with those of the Chretien era and Harpers crowd for the most part comes up wanting).
Simple fact John is more right of center and i am more left of center but we are both Liberals and could come to compromises for the benefit of the country. We need that Liberal…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin Showell posted a new activity comment posté il y a 4 mois
En réponse à : Jarek Walter posted an update #supplymanagement Here we are again discussing the Supply Management System. This time it is triggered by the letter floating on Internet. The letter was send by our Liberal MP, […] AfficherJarek – Mr Easter actually replied to my questions (!) here on Liberal.ca (look for the #supplymanagement hashtag)
In his response he says that the resolution he was discussing was from the 2005 convention (#33). I misread the tweet – he actually says “It was voted at the PREVIOUS convention to 2009.” – strange way to word it but …
Please…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin Showell posted a new activity comment posté il y a 4 mois
En réponse à : Jarek Walter posted an update #supplymanagement Here we are again discussing the Supply Management System. This time it is triggered by the letter floating on Internet. The letter was send by our Liberal MP, […] Afficher#supplymanagement @wayne-easter
I have a few questions for The Hon. Wayne Easter and I hope, that if he honestly cares about what this party wants, as he claims in his letter to MHF, that he will take the time to respond to us all here on the community page at Liberal.ca:
QUESTION: Do you, or anyone in your immediate family, still own a dairy…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted an update posté il y a 5 mois 2 semaines
#supplymanagement
I suspect that we will hear more about avoidance a “dairy cliff” south of the border as a part of our discussion about the supply management in Canada. Taking into consideration that Martha Hall Findlay, the candidate for the leader of LPC , strongly supports the idea of reforming the system in Canada, it’s worth spending…[En afficher davantage]-
From what I have read regarding research conduced by a Dr. Joel Wallach milk might be one fairly easy product to attempt to give Canadians fifty to seventy trace minerals which has been proven to greatly reduce the incidence of cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes and many other ailments.
Dr. Wallach has stated in lectures that we knew since…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted a new activity comment posté il y a 4 mois 1 semaine
En réponse à : Roy Derrick posted an update #leadershiprace Justin Trudeau and Martha Hall Findlay debated Supply Management in Winnipeg today. You can see the points they made here: Afficher#supplymanagement
I agree that there is something wrong with $26,000 quota per dairy cow. There is something wrong with $150 quota per chicken. There is something wrong with setting up a minimum quota for chickens at 14,000 birds. The common denominator is a desire to prevent an average farmer from getting into lucrative 7% of farming business…[En afficher davantage] -
Margaret (Peggy) Hutchison posted an update posté il y a 4 mois 2 semaines
#supplymanagement Using the number of arms as an indication of market size does not reflect the fact that many farms have amalgamated. They are bigger; many are robotic and can be bigger with fewer hands required to operate. Farm practices make more efficient use of land, energy, buildings. And so on …..
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John Langenecker posted an update posté il y a 7 mois 4 semaines
What can we do to make sure that new producers that never had to pay for quotas do not have an unfair advantage?
$1/litre milk (unregulated market assumption) will be either a huge disadvantage to current producers or it will be heavily subsidised with quota buyouts.
How we deal with the existing quotas is the real dilemma.…[En afficher davantage]
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Chris: why would there necessarily be new producers? couldn’t those farmers continue producing as before just under a new system and for those who wish get out couldn’t the gob’t come up with some acceptable pay out? It could be costly but money has been wasted on other initiatives with little or no return.
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What did the government charge for the quota’s when they issued them?
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#supplymanagement
When tha Supply Management was created about forty years ago quotas were given to the existing producers for free. They didn’t have to pay a cent for them. Over the years quotas became precious commodities.
Anyone trying to break into closely controlled cartel of producers of milk, eggs, chicken and turkeys (only those…[En afficher davantage]-
When we calculate $300 extra on food, do we take into consideration farm subsidies in the US?
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Both Australia and New Zealand eliminated supply management systems, so there is already a working model. It is not a quick process and will take several years (8-12) to do properly. There are lots of papers on the methodologies used but, for example in Australia – “Australia, which invented supply management in the 1920s, eliminated all dairy…[En afficher davantage]
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The party cannot loose the current producers vote for generations.
Do you know if there was a backlash from the farmers down-under?
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I am far from an expert on the dismantling of supply management – I was just saying that it has been done successfully and therefore there is a model that we could follow – or at least learn from.
I am sure that in the beginning there was push back from the framers, but my understanding (limited) is that everything is working quite well now, the…[En afficher davantage]
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The right thing to do is important, but we have to win elections before we can do it.
Little bit of personal history.
My father supported wage and price controls, it was for the greater good.
His wages were rolled back and he had to pay back the amount he was “over paid”
What did not happen is he was not reimbursed for what he overpaid and…[En afficher davantage]
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I see your point, but the idea is to come up with a plan that treats everyone fairly and where the majority benefit. I think that can be done – but it will take negotiation and work from all stakeholders – it won’t happen right away. I think by using the models and results from New Zealand and Australia we should be able to convince all…[En afficher davantage]
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Once again, we are in agreement.
The $1/liter price came from @MikePMoffatt , an economist. He used this price to try to build support for his argument that supply management is hurting low income families.
While I agree that it does, I feel the risk of putting out that message ($1/liter) will loose more support than what it will gain. I can not…[En afficher davantage]
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I think that we have about 13,000 (about 10 times less comparing to time when SM was introduced) farm operators in Canada regulated by the Supply Management. The avearge income of those operators is much higher that farmers producing beef or pork. I think that if political support for the SM reform is a consideration, the support of 24,000,000…[En afficher davantage]
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I agree that the system is not suitable in the growing age of free trade.
I also have to remember when it was built, is it possible that this liberal party is responsible for what we are trying to tare down?
Heavy handed tactics can backfire in our face. Martin Showell referred me to the experiences down under. It referred to a faze out tax that…[En afficher davantage]
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John Langenecker posted an update posté il y a 6 mois 1 semaine
#supplymanagement News from the United States
The “dairy cliff”
Crying over nearly spilt milk“When the previous farm bill was about to expire in 2007 the first of several temporary…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted a new activity comment posté il y a 7 mois
En réponse à : John Langenecker posted an update #supplymanagement What can we do to make sure that new producers that never had to pay for quotas do not have an unfair advantage? $1/litre milk (unregulated market […] Afficher#supplymanagement
When tha Supply Management was created about forty years ago quotas were given to the existing producers for free. They didn’t have to pay a cent for them. Over the years quotas became precious commodities.
Anyone trying to break into closely controlled cartel of producers of milk, eggs, chicken and turkeys (only those…[En afficher davantage] -
Chris Land posted an update posté il y a 11 mois 3 semaines
#supplymanagement
I think the conversation on supply management is an opportunity WRT the TPP. The whole point is to level the playing field. Us getting rid of 300% tariffs and ending supply management is contingent upon the Americans ending the billions in farm subsidies they have. I don’t know what other trade protectionism other countries in…[En afficher davantage]-
Completely agree with this post, which raises a question that is all too frequently overlooked in this argument – what about the subsidies, hidden and otherwise, of our competitors? Instead we seem to be focusing only on the rather obvious unfairness of our supply management regime.
Surely a responsible govt would ensure that steps were taken to…[En afficher davantage]-
Thanks for saying that. This is what I got from the article in the G&M by Martha Hall Findley. She doesn’t go into how Canada can get other countries in the TPP to reduce their protectionist policies but I think it’s implied. The TPP is a negotiation after all. I really think this is an issue that Liberals can get behind. It is something that…[En afficher davantage]
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Well i’m onside, at least provisionally. But i have concerns about the scope of the TPP negotiations. There are some serious issues around off shore corporate rights that should concern us before we get fully behind this. I’m not at all a fan of corprate rights trumping local democratically enacted enviromental or business bylaws.
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You neglected to add labor laws also. I just finished reading Martha’s report and it’s awfully partisan in the terms of economic ideology, but when you add some of the wording of the TTP it makes the Frazier Institute and the IMF sound like small L Liberals. I recently watched a dramatization of the meeting that took place between the German…[En afficher davantage]
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You really should read Martha’s report Chris. Somewhere in this forum Martin Showell was kind enough to post a link to the document. As one Liberal who thinks it’s wise to to have a critical thought process about everything, I very much feel this is an extremely bias report. One whole section of it is dedicated to explaining how politically…[En afficher davantage]
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There you go again Robert with claims of the “…distorted price of milk that’s used to win over consumer support…”
So, I will ask … again … which part of the calculation is “distorted”? Is it the average price of Canadian milk (as supplied by Statisitcs Canada, CANSIM Table 326-0012 and Catalogue no. 62-001-X)? Or is it the average…[En afficher davantage]
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There are only three areas in Canada where the price od milk could be higher than the said 8.00 something a jug. They are all in the North and the high price they pay there has nothing to do with the supply management fair price for milk. They have no dairies there so the transportation cost to get milk to these areas is enormously costly.
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I’m sorry Robert, I mean no disrespect, but your methodology is completely NON-scientific.
First of all you are referring to a ”jug” of milk. What is the size of this ”jug”? The report prices are based on the cost of 4 litres of milk which is what they use as an average for weekly family consumption (low in my opinion).
Please see the base for…[En afficher davantage]
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I feel I must also stress that the 4 liter per week amount for an ”average” family is incredibly low.
My wife and I alone (and we aren’t ”growing” any more) go through 3-4 liters a week.
A family that consists of two adults and three teenage children is more likely going through 12-15 liters a week … meaning they are over paying in the…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin why do we have to keep going over this. A jug of milk is the terminology used in the documentation you supplied the link to to define a four liter container which comes in a plastic jug. In the first link you supplied to us it was priced at $8.92 Its the average of all the different prices of milk in Canada Which includes the price of…[En afficher davantage]
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Well Robert, it looks like I owe you an apology (at least partial).
I have been looking at the price of milk in a very unscientific and myopic way. I live in Toronto where the average price for a litre of milk is $2.70 so the prices listed in Ms Hall Findlay’s report did not seem at all unrealistic to me – and I did not question them. Doing a…[En afficher davantage]
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It is definitely not reasonable to compare the price provided by CANSIM Table 326-0012 which is the price for one litre containers of milk, with the price provided by the US Department of Labour Statistics for one gallon of milk in the US. A more reasonable comparison would be one gallon in the US with four litre containers in Canada. Most…[En afficher davantage]
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Some more reading for those concerned with supply management in milk. ( eggs and poultry are different)
Not sure supply management has that much to do with the price of good reliable milk.
Supply management, in my opinion, guarantees the farmer a possibility of making a living.
Producing milk isn’t a ” in today, out tomorrow ” kind of industry.…[En afficher davantage]-
Thanks for these links Rick … that’s what I have been asking for … the other side of the story that doesn’t have the red-herrings of “tainted products” and “evil corporate empires” … I look forward to reading them fully.
Producing dairy, eggs, chicken is certainly not an “in and out” business and not for the feint of heart. But…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin, when I was referring to an “in and out” business, I was referring to pig and beef operations, who fill there barns based on the price futures. Even well healed egg and hen farmers could leave their barns empty if the price wasn’t there, which what was happening before supply marketing. Of course the farmer who just got in, was wiped…[En afficher davantage]
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Thanks for clarifying Rick.
I certainly don’t claim to be an expert on any form of farming. But I do know that all the fears mentioned by proponents of supply management have not come to fruition in other countries that eliminated it – don’t see why it would different here.
Again, I don’t know the breakdown of farm sizes in dairy, but I…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin, I live near London Ont. I know of one, maybe 2 large dairy farms that are bigger than most in the area, say 500 “milking” cows or more. Both are still basically family run. This is small, to the 3 to 5 thousand cow farms in the states.
The main reason reduction in the amount of farms is, it is a thankless business. If you want to be a…[En afficher davantage]-
You’re very knowledgeable on the topic of dairy farming Rick and I thank you for the information.
But I am sorry to say that nothing you have said here convinces me that Canadians should not take a long hard look at whether we want to continue to have supply management. And to be honest there is nothing anyone could say that would convince me…[En afficher davantage]
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You are absolutely right about negotiations on subsities. They need to be and I am sure will be part of any trade agreements.What I find interesting about this conversation is that it was started by a potential LPC leadership candidate. Just a few years ago such remarks would have resulted in a trip to the wood shed. After all Supply Management…[En afficher davantage]
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So, I have a supply management related question – or – maybe it is and maybe it isn’t … that’s basis of my question.
Robert Halter and I have been having a discussion about the figure of $300 a year extra paid by Canadian families for milk – a figure put forward by Ms Hall Findlay in her recent report.
After going back and forth on the…[En afficher davantage]
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This was a good read John. It shows that you do look past the mainstream media to get your information.
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I know the price for a liter of milk in the Okanagan is 50 to 60 cents higher than here in Manitoba because there are no dairy processors in the Valley that I know of. So transportation cost are a factor, but why it is higher in Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal has to be because they retail it at a higher profit margin. It sure doesn’t speak…[En afficher davantage]
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I don’t think the source used above by Martin Showell should be accepted as reliable. I just bought a four litre jug in Red Deer for $4.57, and one litre cartons were selling for about $2.30, while the site shows a price of $4.00 in Red Deer.
The price of four litres of milk can vary by up to $1.00 even among major grocery chains. Prices on…[En afficher davantage]
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Just a tip bit of information Cuddy Foods went to South Caroline some years ago to play with the big boys, in chickens and turkeys. The USA boys said no thanks, don’t want you, and cut the prices so low Cuddy Foods couldn’t compete. That was the start of the end, for Cuddy Foods as a separate company.
A big fish at home, a minnow in the USA,…[En afficher davantage] -
Martin, sorry couldn’t post under your last reply.
Martin Did you know that China is one of the biggest exporters of dairy products out of NZ. Now China is trying to get into NZ and set up there own mega farms and control the dairy market in China. NZ farmers are fighting tooth and nail to stop someone taking over there dairy market. Sounds a…[En afficher davantage] -
OK… I believe we should have a World Free Trade Agreement, and give the WTO teeth to enforce it. Why have so many different trade groups? It is better for trade to cut the trade red tape.
And from my understanding, no country cares if Canada subsidizes its farming, they just want access to our markets, which does make sense. Think about it. If…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert Halter posted an update posté il y a 8 mois 1 semaine
#supplymanagement
I would like to agree with you Chis, but who’s going to play fair ball? And. Lets not forget that Canada’s whole domestic market may be at stake, should we choose wrongly, to being the first kid on the block to wear our heart on our sleeve. When one takes a look into the scheme of things, it’s very difficult not to conclude.…[En afficher davantage] -
Jarek Walter posted an update posté il y a 9 mois 3 semaines
#supplymanagement
The Montreal Economic Institute just released the detailed report “The negative consequences of agricultural marketing boards”. This report should be of a great interest to those who want to learn what are the necessary conditions to realizing the competitive potential of our agri-food sector, fostering agri-cultural…[En afficher davantage]-
Thanks Jarek. Only scanned it so far and will read in full later on, but it seems to echo all the other reports I have read on the subject … at least the ones written based on science and fact as opposed to PR pieces from the boards themselves.
Yet more “evidence” to be considered by the party (LPC) that claims to promote “evidence based…[En afficher davantage]
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#supplymanagement
The Liberal caucus is meeting in Montebello, Que., Sept. 4 to 6. It would provide a perfect opportunity to discuss and come up with the official LPC position on the management system. The topic of SM is listed as a third from the top on our web site list of the most active topics. It would warrant a serious analysis by our…[En afficher davantage]
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Thanks Jarek. This is a very detailed and complete article in comparison to every other report I have read to date. However what seems to be still absent is the net benefit results realized by those farmers left in the industry today and the consumers in the Countries mentioned as success models.
Also since most of these changes made in various…[En afficher davantage]
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#supplymanagement
There is an interesting aspect of the supply management described in http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/09/03/ottawa-chobani-yogurt.html
The cartel of milk processors tried everything in their disposal to prevent a company from opening a yogurt making plant in Ontario. Therefore, the SM extends not only to farmers…[En afficher davantage] -
Good to see you keeping an open mind Robert.
Having now finished reading the report, I agree, it is one of the more detailed and complete I have read – although obviously, as you point out Robert, there are details that may still be missing.
What I haven’t seen yet is a government study, and I strongly believe that is what we need.
Also, not…[En afficher davantage]
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It might also be interesting to know who owns/ finances the think tanks / sources from which we take our ’evidence’ as well as their reputation in the academic and / or political community.
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That is a valid question Maryanne. The report cited here by Jarek is from the Montreal Economic Institute. This group “claims” it is an independent, non-partisan, not-for-profit research and educational organization that does not accept any government funding – please, do you have information to the contrary? Another report that has been often…[En afficher davantage]
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I do agree with you when you talk about review Martin and sorry about the comment about scientifically proven. It was really intended to make light of things not be offensive.
What I do worry about though is staying objective in regards to the purpose of supply management. In the free Capitalist world there are winners and losers, but why is it…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, interesting. I do “think outside of the box” quite regularly. I’m afraid that what you really mean here is “when will my thinking outside the box coincide wit your thinking outside the box”. Perhaps in some areas it will or already does. But the area “outside the box” is very big and, to be honest, I do not have the time or the…[En afficher davantage]
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I’ll see what I can do about identifying those 180 plus Countries. Perhaps I am in error saying they no longer will accept currency in exchange for goods. I think a more precise term would be unless a particular Country was a resource based economy I should have said I apologize for not having reseached this resource based economy thing more…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted a new activity comment posté il y a 9 mois 2 semaines
En réponse à : Jarek Walter posted an update #supplymanagement The Montreal Economic Institute just released the detailed report ”The negative consequences of agricultural marketing boards”. This report should be of a great […] Afficher#supplymanagement
There is an interesting aspect of the supply management described in http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/09/03/ottawa-chobani-yogurt.html
The cartel of milk processors tried everything in their disposal to prevent a company from opening a yogurt making plant in Ontario. Therefore, the SM extends not only to farmers…[En afficher davantage] -
Jarek Walter posted a new activity comment posté il y a 9 mois 3 semaines
En réponse à : Jarek Walter posted an update #supplymanagement The Montreal Economic Institute just released the detailed report ”The negative consequences of agricultural marketing boards”. This report should be of a great […] Afficher#supplymanagement
The Liberal caucus is meeting in Montebello, Que., Sept. 4 to 6. It would provide a perfect opportunity to discuss and come up with the official LPC position on the management system. The topic of SM is listed as a third from the top on our web site list of the most active topics. It would warrant a serious analysis by our…[En afficher davantage] -
Bill Moses posted an update posté il y a 10 mois 1 semaine
#supplymanagement OK I’m starting to see the logic of this thing! Why should we pay more for something if someone else can provide a product or service with the same quality at a lesser price.
Let’s look at teachers. Suppose someone comes up here from Boise Idaho, demonstrates that they are a BETTER teacher than someone working here and is…[En afficher davantage]-
Bill, your analogy really doesn’t hold water. If they really wanted to earn less money even though they are better than everyone else, they can ply their trade in the private school system where the Teachers Union doesn’t have an iron grip on the labour as they do in the public education system. That way they can make less money even though…[En afficher davantage]
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If you’re starting to see that logic Bill that is not a good thing. The flaw in the capitalist system is this. If you truly can afford to charge less for the same thing you sold yesterday. You either found a way to eliminate an expense you had yesterday. Which no matter what you believe, the fact is. That someone or something is not getting…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted an update posté il y a 10 mois 1 semaine
#supplymanagement
I came across of a post by conservative MP Brent Rathgeber (http://brentrathgeber.ca/in-defence-of-free-markets-and-agriculture/). I suspect that in tightly controlled conservative caucus such a post received a prior approval.In one point Mr. Rathgeber summarizes his opinion of the Supply Management: “It is difficult to…[En afficher davantage]
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”legal transfer of income” My goodness. That would cover income taxes. Why are we forced to pay for police services? Why can’t we arrange our own security? Why shouldn’t people be able to opt out of paying into Employment Insurance?
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With respect Bill, I think you are missing the point. The argument about income transfer is that part of our income is being legally taken by a small group to bolster their income. This is hardly comparable to income tax. While some of our income tax is used to provide income supplements for less fortunate people (e.g. welfare etc.) I do not think…[En afficher davantage]
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“to bolster their income.”..?. it’s more like to be able to take some of the up and down financial pressure off so that they can concentrate on producing a good product.
If someone in my extended family could provide my family with an important good or service I would find it hard not to compensate him/her fairly. Or should we say t.t., I can…[En afficher davantage]-
And therein lies the discussions we have been having here and the need for a full parliamentary inquiry/investigation into whether supply management is needed and whether it benefits the majority of Canadians.
The reports I have read say that dairy and poultry farmers earn more than the average Canadian and more than the average farmer … Why?…[En afficher davantage]
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You are forgetting what freedom is defined as Martin. It also includes giving people the opportunity to pursue what methods they choose to conduct their means of commerce. If you are not opposed to cooperatives, why do you think supply management is such a questionable idea?
I do agree consumers in the TGA are paying a way more for their milk…[En afficher davantage]
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There is no such freedom guaranteed in Canada – you’re just making that up. We have numerous laws and legislation in Canada that are the exact opposite of what you say, Robert. Free trade agreements dictate how most of Canada does business. We have anti-trust laws, anti-collusion laws, anti-monopoly laws. Your statement could not be further from…[En afficher davantage]
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I was referring to the Liberal Party of Canada and the principals they work to adhere to. Well lets just say most of the time. Over the last three decades they have failed and faltered in this regard in my opinion. Had I been there I would have been very busy to see such things did not happen or continue when they did.
Regarding the prices in…[En afficher davantage]
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It’s the price we pay for food security. Certain other groups that receive a high degree of ’income transfer’ include national defence, health care, and mineral exploration, but I wouldn’t argue that any of this is contrary to the principle of equality. Believing that the free market is the answer to EVERYTHING is an opposition stance.
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#supplymanagement
The inequity of the supply Management manifest itself in a number of ways. The most obvious one is that it doesn’t benefit all the farmers. We have 205,730 farms in Canada (according to the 2011 Census of Agriculture) and only 12,835 dairy cattle and milk farms (DCMF) and 3,255 poultry and egg production farms (PEPF) are…[En afficher davantage] -
Income transfer is when you take income from Peter to pay Paul. It is not the same thing as taxation.
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Jarek and Martin……quote all the facts and figure’s you want but if you are only doing so to manipulate the truth. You aren’t accomplishing anything worth paying attention to. You get offended when some of your arguments amount to nothing more than propaganda and you are told so. Well explain to me how using the word inequity in the in the…[En afficher davantage]
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Whoa .. hold on there … “facts and figures … manipulate the truth” – do want to maybe rethink that statement? The way it is it sounds a bit um, “harper-esque”.
Well here’s some more truth manipulating facts for you (from a 2006 paper but I think you’ll get the point):
•The price of industrial milk has increased by 53% over the past 12…[En afficher davantage]
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Three things. What the hell is industrial milk? 18 % drop in milk consumption. Maybe peoples income have fallen so far behind inflation that they don’t have the money to buy the things they need anymore? And unfair means. Sorry but that is propaganda. Propaganda is not so much what you say, but the words you use to say it. Color. Or spin, the…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert Halter posted an update posté il y a 10 mois 3 semaines
I’m starting a new thread here because so much has been debated on this subject so far that it is longer possible to link the discussion together without omiting part it and all of it seems to have a certain value.
I think its safe to say that regarding supply management we have come to a consensus that the matter needs to be…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, I am not clear on what you are asking on this thread or why you started a new one, but for me the bottom line is this:
There are approximately 12,000 dairy farms in Canada that benefit from supply management and the overcharging of consumers for their goods. They operate in a market that is essentially closed to outside competition and…[En afficher davantage]
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The whole issue of supply management has come to a head because of the TPP and fears that to be able to enter the TPP Canada would have to end supply management. Actually, I don’t think this is the case.
Trade agreements are complicated negotiations, filled with give and take. The US dairy industry is already looking for exemptions in the TPP…[En afficher davantage]
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The farmers you talk about who are being put at a disadvantage in trade talks because of other farmers who are members of marketing boards is not a valid argument. What do farmers who do not produce products for export have to do with ones that do. Because the ones that don’t export aren’t completion to any export markets. If we are in trade…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, that is only one aspect of the supply management system. If we want to sell our goods to other countries this protectionist system makes it a tougher sell. If we want to expand our export markets for pork or beef, we also have to allow reasonable access to our markets for them to sell us their goods.
I know you don’t support the free…[En afficher davantage]-
Many people seemed to be believe trade is about tit for tat. That is only partially true . Every situation is different. However no one is going to import something they don’t need or at least they shouldn’t be. Any kind of negotiation that involves this sort needs to be avoided completely, because it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the…[En afficher davantage]
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Second point you brought up. I would have a very difficult time believing New Zealand whats to sell us milk. We provide milk to Northern communities and look what the cost of that is for consumers there. The U.S. on the other hand would dearly love to sell us milk , but the only way we could accommodate this. Is if we put our own produces out of…[En afficher davantage]
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”The reason I find Finley’s and other people’s argument for getting rid of the milk board so aggravating. Is they assume the people who read those reports of articles are stupid enough to believe them” —- Is this keeping an open mind Robert?
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Where is the proof that opening our dairy market to free and fair competition will “put our own producers out of business.” ?
You keep offering this opinion but do not offer any proof.
Also, what about allowing Canada’s dairy producers to export their products and compete in other countries fairly? Supply management makes this next to…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, can you explain this further please? I’m not sure who the “farmers who do not produce products for export” are, as opposed to the “ones that do”. Dairy farmers produce milk that is used to produce cheese that is exported. Beef farmers export beef. Manufacturers export, Grains are exported. I’m confused.
And, I am having difficulty…[En afficher davantage]
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Dairy farmers do not export milk . Some processors who buy their milk do export products made from milk such as cheese, but very little so far. A political war has been raging in the dairy industry for quite some time now to get dairy producers to produce more raw milk so they, certain processors, can make more products like Ice cream or cheese…[En afficher davantage]
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I suppose it is all relative, but I’m not sure I would call $252 million in dairy exports (2011) “very little”. (http://dairyinfo.gc.ca/index_e.php?s1=dff-fcil&s2=imp-exp&page=exp_CY_YTD )
What is interesting is the dairy trade deficit in Canada $383 million (2010), which represents an 11% increase over the previous year.…[En afficher davantage]
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252 million is a drop in the bucket Martin. The proceeds from one weeks sale of milk in the city of Toronto is probably more than that.
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As I said, Robert, it’s all relative I suppose. One quarter of a billion dollars, to me is not a “small amount”. And, it could be much larger if the dairy industry stopped blocking the ability and the rights of cheese and ice cream producers to market their products fairly and openly. But apparently you feel that protecting a small group of…[En afficher davantage]
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Why are you so convinced that the trans Pacific Trade agreement or some world court or tribunal is so necessary to have trade agreements with other Countries? Wouldn’t that be like if you don’t join our club and follow all the rules we from time to time make up , you won’t be allowed to buy or sell anything. Who are these guys? And how did…[En afficher davantage]
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I don’t have the time to explain international trade to you Robert. I suggest you read up on it if you honestly don’t understand the need for trade agreements and trading blocs.
What group of “tyrants” are you talking about? There is no world-wide conspiracy at work – pure nonsense. Who exactly are these conspirators? The trade ministers of…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, just a few comments on some of your points, at the risk of continuing to beat a dead horse:
You said “We can be sure its going to be about us giving up something in exchange for being allowed to sell more of something else. Anything along these lines is not a net benefit for us as a Country. Why is it we have to join some Union ( TPP) to…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin…..There isn’t any proof for something that hasn’t happened yet. How could there be?
There is only one way a farmer could efficiently produce and sell raw milk to another Country That would be move there set up a farm close to a processor and sell it to them. Milk in its raw form spoils rather quickly., but processors not producers can…[En afficher davantage]
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So, then everything you say that is going to happen if we dismantle supply management we have to accept becuase “Robert says it is so”? Yo are not able to offer and facts of research to back it up?That’s silly. We can look at other places where supply management has been stopped. We can look at other businesses where protectionism has been…[En afficher davantage]
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Supply managment effects the DAIRY industry. It doens’t matter what form the end product takes – it’s dairy.
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I know you’re probably tired of hearing what I’m saying from me about supply management. So I’d like to invite you watch a short video produced from the hotbed of free enterprise in Canada. Alberta. Just google Alberta supply management Video.
thanks
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Oh Robert. I keep saying to myself “just stop Martin, you’re getting nowhere” … and then you post something like this that I feel I just must respond to…
First … “Alberta is the hotbed of free enterprise”? Supply management is completely counter to “free enterprise” and yet you offer a video from supply management beneficiaries. Not to mention…[En afficher davantage]
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Matthew….if the situation is as you say yes it’s a win win situation. The slight of hand I spoke about happens when this isn’t the situation. for instance the export of corn to Mexico. Why would Mexico the original place where corn comes from and is still grown there, want to import corn from the U.S. This was part of the free trade deal . Now…[En afficher davantage]
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Matthew…regarding a net benefit to a nation. If a Nation has 25 sticks 5 red one 5 blue ones5 yellow ones 5 green ones and 5 white ones . Then goes to negotiate trade with another nation and ends up trading 2 yellow sticks 5 greensticks and 2 blue ones in exchange for nine red ones . This is not a net benefit for this Nation. If on the other…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, with respect I think you are oversimplifying international trade somewhat and your analogy with the sticks really makes no sense. You seem to be saying Canada does not benefit at all from trade with anyone but in reality we are a trading nation that relies on international trade for our prosperity because of our small population. We…[En afficher davantage]
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You keep making reference to Canada trading with another Nation. The bulk of our trade with other Nations may be from Canada, but its not per say from Canadians trading with another Nation. In (I’d guess to say ) most cases its some foreign owned Corporation who’s mining our resources, who are paying us next to nothing for the right to extract…[En afficher davantage]
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You wanted to hear an argument for supply management in this Country? here’s just one.
If we don’t get rid of supply management and the tariffs regarding dairy products in this Country. Foreign Countries will not be allowed to sell those products from their Countries in this country.
If we got rid of the tariffs and not supply management .…[En afficher davantage]
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With all your research into this Robert, perhaps you can explain some things …
Why do dairy and poultry producers require (or deserve) a type of protection that no other farmers or industry in Canada require (or deserve)?
Why haven’t all the non-protected farmers and industries in Canada been devoured by the evil US conglomerates?
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The truth is that it is good for us and if it was investigated without bias or objectively The investigation could be establish from a Canadian prospective this is very much the case.
In the case of New Zealand and Austrailia, they grew because they now play in a bigger pond , but they grew is only part of the story. Starting with who they are…[En afficher davantage]
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I guess I missed answering a couple of you questions
The wine industry no longer needs protection. They now produce a good enough product their wine is favored by enough buyers to sustain their limited production. If anyone wants to expand the wine industry in the Okanagan they’d have to buy out someone already growing grapes there. It a valley…[En afficher davantage]
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The wine industry is ok because they “now produce a good enough product” … Is that perhaps because they had to compete without protections? Or, on another note … are you saying that Canadian dairy is not a “good enough product” to compete?
Isn’t Maple Leaf Foods a Canadian agro-conglomerate? I know lots of beef farmers in Alberta, they…[En afficher davantage]
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Martin until they remove the brain of a cow from its head and test it they do not know for sure if it is mad cow disease. I said that the symptoms of old age in a dairy cow and a cow that has mad cow disease are very similar in many cases. If people think the worst it’s very easy to cause world wide panic . As what happen several years ago in the…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, you quite clearly stated in you comment that A) Beef cows don’t get mad cow – FALSE. B) Dairy cows don’t get mad cow – FALSE.Canada’s beef farmers were affecte by ”one old misdiagnosed dairy coe” – FALSE.
Yet now you seem to be expert on mad cow … could this be a case of bending the truth to support your argument?
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Where were you when all Canadian beef was banned for export to the U/S because of fears that they were infected with bovine whatever disorder? I suppose iit is possible for beef cattle to contract mad cow disease although very very unlikely I stand corected. I didn’t realize I said dairy cows don’t get it either. I’m still looking fpr where I…[En afficher davantage]
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Well, I was mostly in Toronto, but spent a fair amount of time visiting my sister-in-laws family’s beef ranch in Cochrane Alberta. Why? Where were you? There was some hardship encountered but I didn’t hear of any ranches going under – the drought over the same period of time that devastated the hay and grasses for open grazing had a bigger…[En afficher davantage]
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I helped campaign every food outlet in Canada to convince them. If they weren’t already, that they should help beef farmers by using only Canadian beef.
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Martin you keep asking for scientific proof for what the economic consequences may be for a political decision. I don’t think there is any and I suspect. Nor is there anything that could be offered to you to derail your present train of thought regarding this issue.
I grew on a farm in Saskatchewan and lived most of my life in rural communities…[En afficher davantage]
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Robert, I understand that you are passionate about the issue given you grew up in a farming community. In your last paragraph in this post you say the real reason you support supply management because it ensures that farmers are “…fairly compensated for the work they do or the service they provide.” So what you are really saying is that…[En afficher davantage]
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No I didn’t say supply management was a income transfer scheme. You did. I said it was a means of determining a fair price for their product.
As far as Stronach goes is 60 million excessive? I guess that would depend how much the people who produce that kind of wealth for him are compensated and if the consumers, even its Ford Motor Company,…[En afficher davantage]
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I think you and I have beat this issue to death Robert :-) I’m not sure what is left to say. But I do want to clarify a few things and then I think I’ll just back away…
1. Farmers are the backbone of any country. I have the greatest respect for them want nothing but prosperity for them. But I also want a balance between the advantages they are…[En afficher davantage]
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I do agree we have pretty much beat this issue to death and I thank you for pointing out that I was mis-spelling Martha Hall Findlay’s name wrong . Its a bit embarrassing to say the least.
I am in most part in agreement with your assessment of things, but that that acknowledgement is only given on the basis you seem to understand the important…[En afficher davantage]
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The farmers that do not have supply management could have it if they wanted. Beef farmers in Ontario rejected it for example.
The U.S. subsidizes their farmers which would mean Canada would have to have equivalent subsidies. -
OK to take your argument to its conclusion, Canada should get rid of supply management and also refuse to subsidize farmers when prices are low or when the apple crop fails or when there are drought conditions. Then all these small inefficient farm operations will be forced out of business and large agribusinesses will be able to take over. …[En afficher davantage]
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Bovine Spongioform Encephalopothy Becomes more likely when cows are fed bypass protiens to counterbalance the effects of increased hormones added to dairy cattle diets to increase milk output.Canada does NOT practice this. The USA Does.Supply Management does have its benefits and rather important ones at that.And thats all I`m gonna say bout…[En afficher davantage]
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I agree with your assessment that supply management “needs to be thoroughly investigated”. However, I don’t think we are the ones who should do it.
From the perspective of a policy for the LPC I think that the LPC should call for a parliamentary review of supply management. The questions asked in the review should be:
1. What are the…[En afficher davantage]
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Unfortunately it is current LPC party policy to support the continuation of Supply Management, and Liberal Senator Robert Peterson said in June:
“When Canadians purchase their milk, eggs and dairy we are assured of their quality. Supply management ensures food security and food sovereignty, and prevents the Canadian market from being flooded by…[En afficher davantage]
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Oh yes, I am well aware of the “official” LPC policy on supply management. Not only Senator Peterson’s press release in June put at least two subsequent ones from International Trade critic Wayne Easter.
These releases seem to me to be a “knee-jerk” reaction. A case of dusting off old policy and running it up the…[En afficher davantage]
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Matthew my reason for wanting to start a new thread was to introduce a new subject. The vote thing was to see if we what I thought we agreed and disagreed with was not too far off the mark.
I don’t know about everyone else, but when making comments on something we are already discussing I try to keep like subject views under the same threads.…[En afficher davantage]
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#supplymanagement
I agree that supply management reach the point that a deep assessment of the system is due. I would add one more condition to the review process (applicable to any policy considered or in place): verification that it is in line with our basic principles as defined in http://www.liberal.ca/what-we-stand-for/. If even one of them…[En afficher davantage] -
Hi Martin…..as a result of our discussion here and many of the very good points you have made in a number of comments here. You have inspired me to do a lot of research about the milk board. Yes there are other boards, but so far I have kept my study mostly to milk and some about chickens. There is a lot of information about each and according…[En afficher davantage]
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Lot’s to respond to, so I’ll go point form:
1. I understand why the supply management was created 40 years ago. I am not convinced that it is still needed. Do the same economic and trade factors still exist that existed 40 years ago?
2. Does the supply management in dairy really provide for a “fair” consumer price? How do we know this to be…[En afficher davantage]
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Right John, go ahead try addressing your superior officer by their surname only and see how that works out for you. Same thing at boys schools in Britain, try referring to your “master” by their surname only. That’s the whole point, John … superiors are allowed to address inferiors by surname only … not the other way around, which is why it is…[En afficher davantage]
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Jarek Walter posted a new activity comment posté il y a 10 mois 1 semaine
En réponse à : Jarek Walter posted an update #supplymanagement I came across of a post by conservative MP Brent Rathgeber (http://brentrathgeber.ca/in-defence-of-free-markets-and-agriculture/). I suspect that in tightly […] Afficher#supplymanagement
The inequity of the supply Management manifest itself in a number of ways. The most obvious one is that it doesn’t benefit all the farmers. We have 205,730 farms in Canada (according to the 2011 Census of Agriculture) and only 12,835 dairy cattle and milk farms (DCMF) and 3,255 poultry and egg production farms (PEPF) are…[En afficher davantage] - En afficher d'avantage
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