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Recommitting ourselves to community health care

Posted by Dr. Hedy Fry on October 4, 2012 | No Comments

This week is Community Health Week, which aims to raise awareness about maintaining good health and focus on the community aspect of health care delivery.

The health care needs of Canadians are changing. The old acute care model of health care delivery is neither efficient, nor effective. A hospital is not always the most appropriate place to receive care, nor is a physician always the most appropriate person to deliver that care.

Our health care system needs to shift away from that model to a system of health promotion, disease prevention, and health care delivery through multidisciplinary teams of health care professionals working together in a community clinic. The focus being early diagnosis and preventative care, intervening before a hospital stay is necessary.

The Mental Health Commission of Canada’s strategy, released last May, confirmed that the community, including schools, must be engaged in early identification of mental illness and in support systems for those who live with mental illness.

Community delivery of primary care was one of the five key objectives identified in the 2004 Health Accord between the federal Liberal government and provincial premiers. The aim of the Accord was to achieve real transformative change and sustainability for Canada’s publicly administered Healthcare System.

By focusing on the social determinants of health, such as poverty, housing, security, education, and proper nutrition, the community health care model can intervene early and work to keep people healthy, while at the same time monitoring those that are chronically ill; keeping them from deteriorating and ending up in hospital.

Hospitals are only one aspect of a much larger health care system. Establishing more community health care teams, who are connected to the community and its diverse needs, is critical to ensuring the future sustainability of our health care system.

Let us take the opportunity this Community Health Week to re-commit ourselves to the community care goal established in the 2004 Health Accord.

Dr. Hedy Fry

Liberal Health Critic
MP, Vancouver Centre

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  1. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

    Health care needs to heavily weigh into nutrional treatments. That might sound hokey to those who are used to popping pills to cure a problem. Presto! Problem solved. Just like those fast food restaurants we go to satisfy our ‘hunger’ or just the taste buds looking for comfort.

    Lot of Ms Fry’s comments are for professionals. The language being the issue.

    I think we need to progress from just the delivery of pills. We should look at integrative models of medicine.

    We are eating too much food that is depleted of nutrients and might be genetically modified.

    There is a new study out which shows that GM foods created tumours in rats. I have posted it somwehre on these Liberal topics. We eat corn which is bad for health as compared to old days when it was good to eat.

    Our soil has been depleted of let us say eg selenium due to regular cultivation over the years. So the bread we might eat does not have enough of it. Selenium as we know has an impact on cancer prevention. So there we have an example of how world populations must be controlled.

    We all know that cinamon regulates blood sugar chemistry.

    It makes sense to eat healthy food. Very many seniors cannot eat healthy food because they recieve limited pensions and they have to make do with it.

    Yes there are doctors popping up in Ontario who practice holistic medicine. That is good news.

    We need to lean on eating healthy foods to prevent disease which at present is not the case. just look at your local grocery store which is packed with all kinds of junk food which occupies most of the shelf space. It took me long time to wean from eating sugar cookies, which is my weakness.

    Sugar is bad for health. In fact very bad but the stores keep selling it in various forms.

    Burzynski clinic in the US is under fire from regulators because it has crafted unique treatments to treat cancer. So the only way to get admitted into his medical care is deal with FDA which regulates patient treatments. He has the highest success rate in north America.

    Then I see those running for cure paying these research facilities lot of money in the belief that a cure is around the corner. But the areas and organizations that need funding are not necessarily the ones which have the biggest muscle and clout among the donors who trust them!

  2. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    This may be off-topic. I also don’t know whether it would be a federal, provincial or municipal matter. I hope the first. I am at present making funeral arrangements for myself. I would like to be able to make provision for donation of suitable organs for transplant, but I cannot do this at the funeral home. If such a provision was in store, I believe that under the auspisces of individual funeral parlours, that more donations in the service of others might be possible. I note there was an article not to long ago expressing the need to make such options available for people. Am just making this suggestion, with the possibility that if funeral parlours were put into the ‘mix’, that such provisions could be more easily arranged, and therefore health care to those in need could be better organized, whether ‘federally’ or at the community level. The funerl parlous could perhaps make a charge, as part of their service, and transport the person passed away to hospital, or whatever, for the donation to take place. Just a thought.

  3. Avatar of Amanda Bickle Amanda Bickle said on

    Customised Treatment/Research Centers (instead of hospitals)
    -Remove emergency treatment system
    -Open 24 hours/walk in/by appointment
    -Have combination of Naturopathic doctors/Chinese Doctor/conventional general practitioners physiotherapists/ surgeons etc depending on the type of treatment center.
    -All employees in the treatment center are paid the same wage. This will decrease the amount of people doing this job to make money and increase the amount of people who care.
    -It will also encourage teamwork between the employees to come to a group consensus before diagnosis and treatment is determined. More heads with more experience is better than one head doing the entire decision making.
    -With the new generation comes better technology to make it easier to do research. All research should start over and be redone. Use people who have experienced injury, mental disorder and disease.
    -Creating a better education system that includes preventative medicine will decrease stress on the healthcare system.
    -Have a government regulated online/library information source to help people decide which treatment center to go to.

    Examples of Treatment/Research centers
    -Seniors/financial/ medical
    -Mental Health/financial/medical
    -Broken Bones
    -Ligaments and Joints
    -Neck and head /dental/sinus/ ears/ eyes/throat etc.
    -Neurological Disorders
    -Genetic Disorders
    -Immune System

    Educating people on preventative healthcare is critical to limiting stress on the healthcare system. More and more discussions regarding the topic are surfacing in news and social mediums. People are becoming more aware and want to make these smarter choices. The problem right now is access. The way our system is structured it allows the large food corporations to come in and take out the small farmers who are trying to produce food that is healthy for the environment and people and still make a profit for themselves to survive.

  4. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

    Eating organic foods which are rich in nutrients grown over soil that is rich with minerals etc is the way to go. It will reduce pressure on medicine practiced by the doctors who are trained to ignore other modalities which are legitimate but given the cold shoulder because the profit takers don’t like it. So the profit takers drum up all kinds of bad vibes to not allow competition to their health care model and modality. It is a pretty mean business.

    I once asked a bank employee (run for cancer cure) where does this collected money go and and how is it distributed. She had no idea, So she was there to collect it. People are being duped. They don’t want Burzynski clinic because it is competition for medical folks and the pharmaceutical industry which provides medications at lucrative profit. It cuts into their profit. One cancer patient is about half a million dollars worth of business. It is lucrative. They don’t care about your health but the profit that lands in their pockets. Medical profession is now becoming the domain of vultures paid for by the ignorant. It is not innovation but it is profit that matters.

    Loreen Lee: The doctors at hospital are able to take care of organ donations. So it is not a problem at all. It is pretty informal. You just have to tell a doctor and they will take care of the rest. They remove your organs before you end up in a funeral home. You might want to make sure that your relatives are aware of it and they do not object. Otherwise you have to leave written instructions for the doctors to rely upon. Your advocate to whom you have given authority to act on your behalf should be given the appropriate written instructions.

    Folks we got to reduce the population explosion in the world which will soon find ourselves starving. Not because there are no riches but because our planet cannot support proper human nutrtion.

    India, China and Africa should be buzzed by the west to lookout for the emerging catastrophy which is at the subteranian level at the moment. We will all die of malnutrition.

  5. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Hi. Just noticed that my ‘reply’ did not get to ‘this post’. Keshav, I was responding to an article I read in the star which said that more organization was required if the number of organ donors was to increase. I understand that if you die in the hospital, your body is transferred to the hospital morgue, etc. But not everyone dies in hospital. My funeral parlour is organized to handle all matters pertaining to death, from death certificate, to arrangements for church service, etc. etc. etc. They will also inform family of death when necessary, as in my case, I expect it will be. So just a restatement of the gist of the article which was that not all contingencies are covered, and that there could be more information available to those who are planning to be a donor.

  6. Avatar of Roger E. Roger E. said on

    I would like both party members and politicians to do everything they can to clean up the party’s reputation and clean up and PROSECUTE corruption within or related to the party, especially in situations like e-health, Orange, etc in Ontario. Otherwise we are doomed. If we don’t clean house and act responsibly, somebody else will do it for us.

  7. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

    In addition Roger there is waste within the bureaucracy which the politicians don’t want to clean up or are loath to do it as they have to depend on them to get them the answers they want. Or get things done.

    What we need is a quality assurance team which audits the party’s agenda and course of action it has taken to ensure that waste and mismanagement is minimized.

    It should also be able to give advice!

    I think you raise a good point.

    My recomendation is to have this internal political quality assurance team.

  8. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Again my response didn’t take: So to be brief: who will vote the internal political quality assurnace team in. Another timocracy in the making? Socrates/Plato asked: Who will guard the guardians? What we need is not only the call for transparency of other political parties, but transparency of legislation ‘in the making': how and why, etc. etc. not only of the party in power but of ‘all parties’……Just read May on the Carbon tax, and investment of China. Will this be made transparent in the soon to be released action plan (many millions spent here) that I understand from May was not even allowed time for argument in parliament. But you have to watch yourself even around the Liberal party – you might be accused of being a trouble maker, for even making a ‘trivial’ remark if you’re not careful….

    • Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

      Loreen: No! It will have to be people within a party. Where for example companies have board of directors who are appointed by the executive. Not the best approach. The other one is to elect such folks from within the political party membership. Such folks keep a watch on the matters. If something starts to deviate from what was the original intent or if there is a corrupt practice introduced then may be there is a mechanism to tweak the politicians in power. No it is not going to be easy.

      In other words an internal jury rules on some significant matters of concern. Unfortunately liberals themselves go ballistic and don’t listen to anyone within their party from that kind of criticism regarding the state of affairs.

      There is some kind of deafness that sets in once they are in power. This is not only true about liberals but I suspect any other party too! Eventually they crumble.

      There have been times when I have interfered but they are too busy, too proud, too afraid and could not care less what you tell them. It is crazy as it sounds. So my thoughts tend to be that they must loose power as it has happened in Quebec. They just loose touch! All parties go out of style with time as they don’t change with changing circumstance and then they are playing a broken record over and over and over again.

      Take look at Ontario liberals. I think they did not do any kind of succession planning and now we are not seeing any radical change or deviation from the past. May be no one wants to take on the agenda of cuts in programs which are unpopular. They are too busy fighting the brush fires that are ablaze now.

  9. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Gee! I appreciate your ‘critique’, but I also note that these comments contribute to a forum, in which views, including those that are critical are being spoken, and possibly ‘listened to’. I believe the party does what you are proposing this elected jury do, that is, (although it often limits development of ideas and points of view) the party does make its members stick to its agenda. Where do you draw the line, between keeping on track, and allowing perhaps goods ideas from those who may even dissent.
    There will, I anticipate, always be some need for secrecy in politics, if not with respect to what we note today can be subversive sharing of information with another country, to the goods given to another party. Even as individuals, we ‘protect our own’, in this regard. We also can’t afford to ‘sink’ into a kind of ‘intellectual anarchy’. How to maintain professionalism, in the media, in forums such as this, and in being objective in our critique in day to day conversations, might be sufficient. There is a need to develop the skills of ‘taking worthwhile criticism’ on both sides of every fence.
    I would like to see, for instance the Liberal party take when possible a mediating role between the diverse perspectives heard in the legislature. There is a least, I understand,often a need for conflict resolution in that noble ‘house’. Although I do not look forward to a government run by the ‘experts’, I often think that personal comments could also be more professional, and cognizant of the ‘facts’. In conclusions, I learned a very interesting distinction today: between optimism, and the personal value of ‘hope’, the difference being that hope is based, generally, more on a realistic perspective of the parameters involved. All the best.

  10. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

    I rather be my authentic self rather than say what I think people want to hear. That is not honesty. It does not help as you can see how the party sunk federally due to everyone agreeing with everyone in order to be a part of the crowd afraid to speak up or not having any original opinions to share.

    Ontario liberals have become too smug with themselves in using their bureaucracy. They should be listening to public more thru public hearings on many issues but they are afraid to do so or don’t care. They think they know best. That is not democracy. It is autocracy.

  11. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

    To give an example of what I stated above:

    Tim Hudak has one good idea today which he spoke about. Use metrolinx to manage the transportation in the GTA. Right now Toronto is struggling with the fact how to finance transportation. Transportation includes more than Toronto as people come to Toronto for work and this congests the system.

    Ontario Liberals have failed to think outside their box!

    In any case we are completely going off topic here. I for one say case closed and let us find another thread where we can discuss this kind of insensivity on the part of governments which stay in power too long and get out of touch with people. It is not limited to any one particular political party.

    Just like China where you do not have choice of government! If you speak up you get into trouble as a trouble maker! Which you spoke of in an earlier opinion expressed.

    There ae no competing ideas or visions which is currently lacking in our federal party that I don’t see being debated.

  12. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Dear Keshav: To follow suit, (although I have been advised not to ‘have the last word’, because it can be an aggressive ‘action’, I will add to your commnent that we should get off this topic, nd yet we should speak with authenticity. I agree in principle, so please excuse my ‘last word’.
    I just came here after reading an e-mail sent to me: yahoo clip on a protest in New York protesting blasphemy after the film debacle of a few weeks ago, etc. The U.S. senator who supported the rally walked off stage because he was offended by what was being said against free speech. Does this indicate that lines are being drawn/ are difficult to draw even on the issue of ‘freedom of speech’.

    For your information I was reprimanded also on an issue of freedom ofspeech at a caucus meeting in HighPark ridingover the issue, intent to create public awareness of stigma issues regarding mental illness. Having in my life time been the recipient of suchstigma, in identifying with this phenomena, and as is so often done by persons affetced,(as in Gay pride day, and Mad pride day) in looking for a name for the showing of a film, I tossed around the idea loonie tunes,merry melodies, loonie films, you get the idea, I was ‘searching out loud’ for the ‘thread’. However, as I can also be seen as ‘sarcastically ironic’ perhaps it was how and not what was said. I don’t know. I was only aware of their reaction, a rather ‘violent’ protest that I would get them into trouble.
    I too am very aware of developing uthenticity, but even this subject has diverse interpretations. For those who have the cultural/religious background that recognizes division between church and state, the personal and the political, this is another context in which authenticity can be understood. Thus I remember advise to render onto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God, (inner self!) what is God’s etc. But I find that even within our advanced society that the division between churh and state is not, cannot be clearly drawn. I ended up objecting to the method of Kennedy’s tactics twoards mental health, saying that ‘stigma’ was a matter of personal values and conscience, which should be protected by the state, but not over-ruled???? by the state. Where do you, dear readers drawn the line. I ended up saying that such could be problematic in Just In’s desire to place ‘values’ rather than ‘ideology’ into the forefront. That I did not want any political party dictating my ‘values’….But, ofcourse, these lines are not easily defined as public or private; I think of environmental issues, etc. and so there needs be a distinction between public and private sphere again. How, where do you draw the
    line? Perhaps we are moving towards another period of ‘matrydom’ in the arena of standing up for authentic, personal ’causes’. !!!! But the question of what lies ahead is too difficult to ponder. I am only grateful for the distinction I have found between personal hope and public, secular optomism, for indeed I cannot say I am ‘optomistic’. Please don’t let me have the ‘last word’….

  13. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

    Let us not just say the famous last words. I did not fully understand your last set of statements. Though philosophically I can sense what you might have meant. In other words there was not enough concrete examples or issues stated that would clarify your concepts, principles or arguments. I had to use imagination to think of what you were saying or what you meant.

    Martyrdom today is used only in one situation which I rather not talk about. In case I am mistaken.

    Expression of authentic self hopefully does not involve becoming violent especially the physical kind. In fact it should not. Violence can be an expression of frustration expressed in that form. For that people should monitor themselves to ensure that if it does come to that they take leave and come back another time.

    Hey! No one is perfect. You can get into heated debate! :)

    Yes, mental health can be an issue in dealing with day to day issues. Not everyone shares your thinking and that is always a challenge to make sure that you are understood. These forums here are no exception.

    I think mental health belongs to this forum on health care.

    However, we can take our conversation elsewhere or create a new thread.

    Secular optimism and personal hope? there is lot of space we can cover under those two phrases.

    Personal private space verses public space? Yes, I can see that all of us would have a different notion of what it might be. In part it will depend on our life experiences, and the culture we grew up in.

    When I switch language of discourse I notice my notions of personal space changes. Did you ever experience that? Lanugage and culture are tied.

    I had that kind of expereince not too long ago when I ran into an old friend of mine. I was challenged to speak in one of the native languages, which I did to assure the parties that I knew the language. However, it broght about some issues which are peculiar to the language medium that was used! In English for instance hierarchy is far less a factor in communicating with others while in the other language it shifts. Recognition of hierarchy is a part of the communication where you convey and reinforce that during the conversation. In any case let us not go there. I can take other examples where I rather use English to converse than some other languages.

    Our values change when we change language! As each language has its own connections to values, and ideology plus ideals!

  14. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Dear Keshav. Thanks for not ‘letting me have the last word’. To clarify, as you wished, my concluding remarks, I was being my ironic self, and yes I do use metaphor often. The gist then would be that if I am not being optomistic enough, please do not ‘let me have the last word’. That’s all I meant.
    Looks like we both have a philosophical background. You are really keeping me to the postmoderns with your comments to make my language less abstract and more down to earth.
    But before we get too far from the topic of this post: I didn’t think that mental health was indeed an issue to be included in community health, but indeed, as the governance of psychological issues has been taken from hospital, to community and courts, truly that Gerard Kennedy is attempting to raise awareness on this point is at least a step in the right direction. The question for me was method, and not as in the film Ryan, (although higher artistic, etc.) once against portrayed hallucination, a mental healthissue, within a context of myth. Myth and madness: now there’s a topic I could wrap my mind around. I think I was mistaken when I insisted that ‘education’ was needed. Perhaps, (and this is always a danger in ‘understanding me’, he attributed a narrow or technical meaning to the term education. So how does one ‘educate’ within the personal sphere, (leaving religion out of the picture!!!!). My comments on authenticity, were influenced by contradicting positions put forward by Sartre vs. Heidegger, on how one could achieve authenticity. Two perspectives relating to the personal/private- public/political dichotomy again. Heideger, believed I believe that the only way to be authentic was within the personal sphere. Those who disagreed were closer to what I take to be your position: We must be authentic, even in the public sphere. But not I don’t think this necessarily entails ‘violence’. Indeed ‘violence’ is often attributed to those with ‘mental disorders’. The thing that I have had, and continue to have to learn, is as you say to ‘walk away, (resist not evil!!) as did the Senator in that clip about the reaction to the volatile film on the prophet, when he felt ‘offended’. It is indeed difficult to walk away from an insult, not to ‘violently’ i.e. angrily defend oneself, not to ‘react’. It is indeed difficult to overcome stigma, now matter whether you have a psychiatric diagnosis or not. It is difficult to (within even the moment the abuse happening, forgive, and yet maintain one’s integrity (authenticity) truth, and particularly physical well-being. All of us, are constantly in the need of defending our own issues with regard to mental health. It is indeed a ‘community issue’. _

  15. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Addendum: I meant to say that I perhaps shouldn’t have insisted as much as a did on the need for education with respect to mental health, as I only realized later that this term was understood within the context of acquiring, for instance, knowledge of psychiatry etc. etc. I did learn to late that he was promoting both advocacy for the mental health issues and those affected, as well as support for people telling their story. I however, did not feel any encouragement from my efforts to promote furthereducation on either and or both of these issues. But the reaction of a woman in the ‘clique’, was merely a verbal violence…..another ‘reaction’……..rather than action, dialogue based on an ‘authentic’ understanding.

  16. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Improve the health in your community. Avoid stigmatizing others (and yourself) whether the issue be physical, mental, religious or political. Remember the’golden rule’ or Kant’s categorical imperative which is found both in all religions and in philosopy.

    Stigma (literally, “label”) – an extremely strong social label, which completely changes the attitude towards others and themselves, forcing refers to a person only as the bearer of an undesirable quality. There are various attempts stigma definition as a phenomenon. However, numerous studies allow us to say: every time when it comes to stigma definition, we can see three common features – the three rules of stigma:

    1. Differences between people are stressed and are considered important. All people are different from each other on the set of criteria. Most differences are not of fundamental importance (passport number, eye color, presence of cytomegalovirus), but if people stigmatize, their differences are viewed as important and socially significant (skin color, the presence of HIV). With respect to these differences people immediately divided into opposing categories (black and white, blind and sighted, HIV-positive and HIV-negative).

    2. People with differences attributed negative qualities. We often look at people’s stereotype. All of our stereotypes about other people are wrong, but they can be neutral or even positive, for example: all women love to take care of the children, all Italians are very emotional. But when it comes to stigma, the differences are considered to be something negative, such as: all people with HIV are dangerous, people with HIV want to infect others with HIV become infected because of immoral behavior, etc. That is, people who are together only one quality (presence of virus in the blood), attributed negative qualities to the virus are not connected: the danger to others, the desire to cause harm, immoral behavior.

    Sometimes the attribution of undesirable features may outwardly appear benevolent and even opposite stigma. For example: all HIV-positive need help and support them throughout. But this is also the attribution of negative qualities, in this phrase means that people with HIV – the victim, they are combining all their problems are associated only with HIV.

    3. People are divided into “us” and “them”. When we have someone stigmatize, we think in terms of “we” and “them”.

    This division suggests that “they” are not quite people, at least, not people like “us”. This is often evident in the language, for example, no one speaks flu-infected person because the person with the flu – one of “us.” But while people with HIV is constantly referred to as HIV-positive, bringing thus the whole personality of the person to his disease.

    If people find some sort of distinction is very important, is credited to people who it is, the negative traits, and can easily be divided based on people on the “us” and “them” – we are talking about stigma.

  17. Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on


    Did you have the last word after all? :)

    I enjoyed your comments including the pontification!

    That was nice!

    May be we can develop some definitions of liberal principles an dideology. They at the moment are vague. You might be able to inject some hard knowledge based definitions?

    But that would have to be on another thread than this one!

    Stigma, as ‘allergic reactions’ and prejudices they do have an impact on our health due to the emotional nature of these matters – especially when they garner negative emotions.

  18. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Dear Keshav. I do feel I am very fortunately to have ‘run into you’ here on this site. My ‘pontification’ (which I am always wary of in the sense of being too ‘bombastic’) if it is the definition of stigma, I found on line, (I consulted the experts in other words). I also appreciated what you said about language. I have lots of time on my hands as I’m retired, but writing a novel, so I shall indeed be reading other posts, and will look forward to seeing your name, and further dialogue. If every one is bent on ‘renewal’, not only of the part, but a continual renewing of one’self, I’m sure that principles and means of dealing with ongoing challenges will develop….(if the individual is ‘listened to’_ that way there is less of a chance of me being bombastic, grin grin. All the best.

  19. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    I just had to come back for one more comment (an even20) regarding the dilemna in the ‘resist not evil’. It hs merely been my expeience that it has never been proven helpful for me to respond to abuse etc. from others, (I mean on the level of stereotyping or stigmatic remarks) from a position of reactive anger, (mental health issues of violence?), etc.) I am not talking about taking measures as in such needful cases of protecting one’s life, etc. As a person who was diagnosed as schizophrenic, before the diagnosis of PTSD was found in the l980’s. this has been a life-learning, still one-going challenge to learn. But it is far better to be the advocate, educator, teller of tales from a life situation, where one is able to be more in charge of the parameters involved, than what is found in reaactive responses to one going dilemnas. Hope this clarifies.

  20. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Hadto make another comment, (no. 21 on my record, not discouraging anyone else from commenting), to remind us all that today concludes’Mental Health Awareness Week’. May all of work towards developing more fulfilling relationships in all of out communities, by respecting the mental health issues even of those who have not been ‘clinically assessed’. Are we, as the blog stated.both capable and dispassionately, (and passionately in the proper context) of assessing and identifying such health care needs of others and ourselves. I am finding it very helpful to learn more even of the diagnostic tools of diagnosis. Also hopefully to distinguish between the psychological and ‘transcendental’ characteristics of ‘good’ mental health. Indeed, is it not true, that such learning is a life long process. Well that concludes me with 21. Hope to speak with you, and more of you, later on another topic that I can identify with. Authenticity: Yes. A modern nomenclature for a very old, and sustainable idea. All the best.

    • Avatar of Keshav Chandra Keshav Chandra said on

      Loreen Lee:

      Did you see the latest posting by Bob Rae? I thought of you when I saw it. It is worth a visit. I think you will enjoy it if one can use that word in this context.

  21. Avatar of Loreen Lee Loreen Lee said on

    Gee Keshav Chandra. Yes, of course, may I interpret Mr. Ray’s excellent post, as an extension of the of the issues we have discussed in this one. I have indeed been thinking, analysing, attempting to come to terms with the tragedy, and the on-going dilemna in the Amanda Todd case. This has involved several parameters: l. the private public distinction made earlier. 2. the private tendency to act or rather react, which could be interpreted as a ’cause’ of interpretation of what constitutes ‘bullying’, ‘stigmatizing’, seeing ‘stereotypes’. 3. The often interchangeability of the victim/pepetrator relationship, in this case as has been commented on by some with respect to the vigalentism! 4. Personally, again, the reassessment of my situation of twenty or so years ago, which I wrote about, and continue to rewrite in google ‘PortalsofParadox’, no spacing. I shall be working on it until the ‘day I die’. But enough self-publicity -and I don’t want to get pontifical ‘again’. 5. It is of course to the ‘public good’ that this case is drawing the attention, even to the ‘house’, regarding this issue. On the opposite perspective, I am somewhat apprehensive that this could result in more extensive ‘reactive’ behavior, if considerable thought is not given to ways of dealing with this that a. do not inhibit ‘freedoms’, of speech, etc. and that ‘educative’ rather than punitive measures are taken. (There I am with the word ‘educative’ which got me in trouble with the organizer in my riding’….if I’m correct there’. I shall indeed look back at it in the hope that you are commenting. Perhaps I shall be able to add to your comments, but this is such a major issue for me(mental health issue, as well as victim/PTSD/perpetrator interactions, that I must be certainly more ‘cautious’ than I have been in this post. This is at root a very complicated issue. (the person responsible for the Mohammed film, for instance was not prosecuted – so where do you draw the line) I do believe we ‘have much to learn’, with regard to our understand of the psychology involved, as well as the legal on one side, and spiritual dimensions of ‘superiority to others’ in our thinking, which make ‘so called bullying’ much more ‘common’ than we might acknowledge or expect. The best.


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