I’m travelling across Canada for the next two weeks because Liberals have a story to share with Canadians about the role that skills training and education has to play in the creation of a sustainable economy.
That story started Monday at Ottawa’s Algonquin Centre for Construction Excellence. Some students I met were preparing to enter the work force. Others re-training so they could jump back in.
Tuesday it was onto Kingston’s St. Lawrence College with Kingston and the Islands MP Ted Hsu. We toured several skilled trades labs that are training young men and women to work directly and hands on in the environmental sector, including on wind turbines, solar installations and with geothermal power. We also visited carpentry, plumbing and electrical labs, and enjoyed a delicious lunch prepared by the culinary students.
During an informal question and answer session, students and staff asked about issues specific to their College diplomas and courses, such as accreditation across the country, student loans and employment insurance delays. They also asked more generally about federal Liberal policy on matters such as climate change, incentive programs and a national role in the support of student education.
I want to thank St. Lawrence College President Chris Whitaker, Senior VP for Student and External Affairs Gord MacDougall, and the Dean of Applied Science, Don Young, for making Ted and I feel so welcome. It was a fascinating and very informative morning.
What are your ideas for building Canada’s future prosperity through skills training and trades? Share your views in the comments below.
- Bob Rae
A lot is said about immigration, and native needs, I see both of them in a different light. We have high unemployment, so until our unemployment drops below 4% I think we should spend our immigration dollars on education of the unemployed. Besides we often use immigration to bring in persons with some skills and as such we are brain draining the foreign country. Also many come here for maybe 5 years to accumulate some wealth and then move back to their home countries. Some of these are doctors as well, they abuse our health care system to get ahead and then move back to say, South Africa for instance!
We also bring in many temporary foreign farm workers, and while some say we are giving them a chance to live better when they go home, I say we are taking advantage of them when we do not treat them better, and if we raised our rules for them and the minimum wage we would hire more of our own, and train them for the skills that are needed. We are using them and we are creating unemployment here, people here would be glad to have those jobs if they paid fair wages and benefits. Businesses here should not get a cheaper deal to hire temporary foreign workers.
As for native workers and education, most places in Canada have good home schooling for high school and even university and college degrees, only the student must be motivated. You can not teach someone who sees no matter what they learn will, it be useless in their community, and many do not want to leave their remote communities to work. Already native students get substantial free help to get advanced education.
I personally have tried to enrol native students in programs that were free, with free accommodation and meals, and mostly it was a struggle to get enough students to fill the program, they wanted to be paid while they were learning. I heard some say they would take the course if they got paid, but would not work at the job afterward. I also know some very skilled natives who took advantage of all that was available to them and they have the degrees and jobs they wanted. The problems are far more complex then just offering education.
I owned a town in Ontario once, a non native town, one that was the left over of a large saw mill of the late 1800’s, it closed in 1929, and most employees left, but a few remained and the descendents of those who stayed were still renting from me 50 years later and the majority were 3rd generation welfare recipients. I asked one young fellow what he was going to do now that he was graduating from high school and he said he and his friends had talked about it and decided that welfare was good for his dad and granddad, so it was what they were going to do, after all he said, there is not much money, but one can live on welfare and has a lot of free time so who really wants to work.
So I submit that we should save the money we spend on immigration and spend it on the people in Canada who do not have real work ethics with some forced schooling and trade training that is required if one is to collect welfare, or any type of government hand out, strings must be attached. Most of these people would be more them happy once they were out of the rut, and in the workforce, only many have never experienced anything except the ruts they were brought up in, it should be our job to create the opportunities so they can. It is very hard to break out of a social structure you lived in since birth, this is part of the education we have to provide.
great comments, and many thanks for contributing. I agree completely that there needs to be a new national strategy for skills and education, recognising the provinces role, but understanding that there is a national interest in recognising opportunity, and that the economy and the world of work and training are completely connected. better curriculum in schools certainly part of the answer, so is a Quebec programme I saw and heard about that takes kids who are not that interested in high school (Quebec has a 30 percent drop out rate at the moment) and gives them a chance to get high school credits in a training college. The general need to improve financial support for people in training also a common theme, as is the need to make sure skills are transportable across the country. we are facing a national challenge of job shortages in parts of the country, and still too little attention to skills training. this will emerge in an even bigger problem in the years ahead. We shall continue to need immigration, and a much better job at providing immigrants with the chance to use their existing skills and training in the work force. We also need to do more for people who are here – aboriginal students for example are facing many barriers but the opportunities are simply tremendous.
Robert Halter, right on, only in recent history, and maybe even today, the wealthy do not understand the Walls of Babylon, and we go through recessions and depressions to redistribute the wealth. I think the wealthy today are too greedy to see that their lifestyle depends on the well being of the working people.
High School does not prepare anyone for the real world any more, and that is one of the key issues related to unemployment, and unskilled persons. It is time that high school meant something again, trades are honourable career choices, and are the backbone of all economies. It is time they were considered more importantly in school, with less emphasis on college and university prep. High school diplomas are often useless for trades or college, the curriculum has to be changed. With a trade one can go on to university and support oneself along the way, with college prep has little more then the option of debt and some future degree that does not prepare for the work world, and I believe produces a product that seems to think the world owes it big money, benefits, and short work hours.
Dale Farquhar…..thanks for being daring enough to comment here. You represent a voice that we would not other wise hear if it wasn’t for your input. I look forward to hearing a lot more from you. Don’t under value what your opinion adds to conversations like this. Ever! You have our attention.
Robert Hawthorne…..I have a nephew who is training to be a plumper, who had exactly the same situation as you spoke of. His mother is a single parent and she had no means to help him. Fortunately she had other brothers and sisters who were able to step up for him to do his schooling without an income.
There is something terribly wrong with this situation that require serious and em-mediate attention. I suspect there may be a pattern here. Can anyone here add to this issue that may help prove if this is true or not?
Jackie….I would like to reply to a couple of your comments on here because they are very good one’s.
Yes I agree the High School trades training is an excellent program from both a employer and employee point of view. I have a son who was given this training which gave him a very decided advantage when he entered the work force. As well I have employed a number of recipients of these courses and I was very impressed with their work ethics and abilities.
Also you mentioned new technologies. Unfortunately a number of them that could be very valuable to us are highly suppressed under the guise of not being real and functional. However since most of the new technologies are predominately mechanical in nature, the present offering in High Schools that have them in this Country. Will prove to be of great value for quite some time to come. We should not be afraid to promote their value to everyone concerned.
I’ve been in the construction industry both as an employee and a employer for most of my life and not just in that order. Depending on the size of my business at the beginning each recession is what determined whether I was to able to remain being an employer or had to return being an employee. Though this may sound rather silly to most of you, unfortunately it is very much the reality for most construction businesses with fewer than a dozen employees.
The reality is that our financial system is flawed. In that it is subject to corruption and if a means does not exist to redistribute the wealth perpetually . It is destined to end up in the hands of a few repeatedly over a not so long period of time. Most people aren’t aware of it , but our present financial system has been in operation since the time of Babylon and even way back then the king of the time had a means of redistributing wealth. It was an ongoing endeavour called building the walls of Babylon. Through out biblical times it was called the year of jubilee. It matters not what we call it today, but if we are going to survive as a Nation. We are going to have to accept as people that such a thing as redistribution of wealth is neither a left or right economic policy, it is necessary.
I’m sorry if I come across as being a bit arrogant to some of you, but if we our going to come up with the kind of answers or policies that could actually be visionary, first we are going to have come to some kind of consensus on what most of us would consider to be sound economics. There is a small little book out there called the “Walls of Babylon” that is a must read for all of us. It may even be the perfect curriculum many of us are suggesting for every grade school-er. All of you please read it, so you will be able to understand what I’m talking about.
There are a lot of good ideas being proposed here. What we need to do though is make sure we know when we are all on the same page. Like Bob Rae continuously tries to reminds us, the Liberal Party is not a Party that is mired in ideologies. When we are successful, we are people who have done our homework and have thoroughly engaged with and have come to know what’s on the minds of the people. We all have a great deal of work to do, but lets start out on the right foot shall we? Follow up on the information I have provided you. Please! I know you will be delighted that you did.
Thankyou
Bob
I’d like to make one more comment. I think we should be exploring the possibility of allowing apprenticeship skills training to start in HS. I was watching a program the other day and they were interviewing this young man who had dropped out of HS at the age of 16, went to work for a construction company and he was now the assistant manager of a major construction project at the age of 23. He was in the process of completing a University degree paid for by his employer.
Am I naive to think that young students who are bored with HS curriculum, are thinking of dropping out to work at minimum wage often seasonal work, might want to start investing in their future if given the opportunity? Maybe this is provincial jurisdiction…
I’m going to piggy back on a previous comment about the Harper government wanting to increase immigration numbers of people who have skills. That in itself is not a bad thing unless, you are doing nothing to make sure that Canadians get a shot at being employed in a trade. I would be very surprised if someone who is currently on unemployment insurance wouldn’t appreciate a program that would help them get on the path of employment, especially for trades that will be required in an economy where new industries will require skill sets that are not readily available today. Incentives should also be available to employers who would participate in such a program, because we know that often the apprenticeship training programs lack the participation of employers.
Great work and congratulations in taking the time to visit the colleges and students.
When my best friend died in 2000 I took in his son and raised him. the boy is sharp as a tack and finished high school with honours in math and science as well as french immersion. I wanted him to attend university, but I am disabled and therefore couldn’t pay for one year let alone 4. he chose electrical apprenticeship. the first year, the province (alta) informed us he would receive his UI within a couple of weeks since it was an apprenticeship at SAIT. well I ended up paying all of his expenses, from school books and tuition, bus pass, food, rent, etc. If he didn’t have me to back him financially, it wouldn’t have happened period.
he was working with an electrical construction company for 2 years prior to his first year theory so he was qualified to receive UI for that period of school. all forms were submitted on time as well.
he was not only finished the 6 weeks training but was back to work for 2 months before he was paid, another two months of bills paid by me, and i am so glad I could manage that much.
How could a person possibly make it through trade school with this kind of “support” for the trades? my son saw numerous students drop out before the end of the 6 weeks because they couldn’t handle the financial drain. several were married with children and they too are expected to go without any income for up to 4 months while the red tape sorts it out?
I too entered the trades arena after serving in the military and continued to work as a power engineer – running a gas plant, a professional firefighter, and an EMT.
if we want to truly support more folks entering the trades, and we definitely need skilled people based on the types of jobs that went unfilled in the last year, then lets get behind our children and give them half a chance at making it for the next 50 years.
I have always been a liberal supporter , and will most likely always will be.The Liberal party is by no means perfect, but it is a much better one then that of Stephen Harper.The Liberals took a beating in the last election mostly because they refused to use the same attack methods as the Cons, this should change.The liberal party should be out there now keeping the people informed as to what is going on.Personal attacks seem to work for Harper, then the Liberals should be useing them too.Start getting the message out as to what the Liberal party will do for Canadians before election time.
Lets reduce the size of government, namely the Senate and have a governing party that is willing to work with the opposition to achive what is best for all Canadians.
Please run web ad against the conservatives. Use their economic policies against them in ad. Tell Canadian in the ad they inherited a surplus and turned it in to a deficit. Compare them with George Bush in the ad. Conclude the ad by saying that they both the same, they both inherited a good economy and made worse. They inherited a surplus and turned it in to a deficit. Please do that, it does not cost much. New polls are suggesting that the conservatives have lost 7% since the May election. They are now a blank slate. It is time Liberals start writing something on that Slate. It is important that we do that because we need to drag their numbers down so all parties can have fresh start. Liberals should not be under impression that negative ad don’t work, they do when its message is right. We should stop being wimps and the conservatives here it hurt most. Even a web ad on Youtube will be ok.
Please run web ad against the conservatives. Use economic policies in ad. Tell Canadian in the ad they inherited a surplus and turned in to a deficit. Compare with the George Bush in the ad. Conclude the ad by saying that they both the same, they both inherited a good economy and made worse. They inherited a surplus and turned it in to a deficit. Please do that, it does not cost much. New polls are suggesting that the conservatives have lost 7% since the May election. They are now a blank slate. It is time Liberals start writing something on that Slate. It is important that we do that because we need to drag their numbers down so all parties can have fresh start. Liberals should not be under impression that negative ad don’t work, they do when its message is right. We should stop being wimps and the conservatives here it hurt most.
I have a question. Why is it that whenever you decide that the role of government, at any level, is to redistribute wealth, it always results in corruption. I live in Montreal and we pay taxes that goes to pay debt that was borrowed by the city and province to pay the mafia for construction work. Has the Liberal party ever admitted that power corrupts and that the human being is not capable of handling the resource power that comes with the redistribution of wealth. And what makes MPs think that they know how to redistribute wealth best, isn’t it arrogant to say you know best.
This is what I have found that needs some correction;
- A standardized certificate for all areas of Canada, now many provinces have their own certification that makes get finding work or finishing ones degree very difficult.
- More people on EI should have support for many more programs, indeed if one does not find work in 3 months they should have to take some sort of full time training to keep their EI benefits. Home study with completed assignments, even basic financing.
- Everyone should be certified in financing, debt management, and investing for ones retirement, as well as proper nutrition, drug and alcohol abuse, and the workings of government and the need to vote.
- Some companies use first year apprentices as cheap labour, which is fine in the beginning, except that they never take on last year apprentices, I have heard some say that they do not want the competition of more journeymen. If a company takes on an apprentice he must finish him and if that apprentice does not work out he has to replace him with an equivalent year one. Companies must be committed to making skilled journeymen.
- Apprentices should not be allowed to pay union dues until they are journeymen. It is an expense they can not afford.
- Some employees become very skilled without formal education, they should be give test and approval of their employers and be certified after a number of years of skill, often skill achieved is more important then the education.
- More cheap government certified home study should be offered to those who can not take the formal class time off their income earning.
- In many case apprenticeship can be started in grade 9 or 10 for those who know what they want.
- Everyone should graduate from elementary school with knowledge of banking and finance, and the risks of debt and debt management. This should then be advanced to investing skills, and retirement planning at the high school level. What is impressed at a young age stays longer then that that is rushed into later in life.
- Finally a plan must be made and updated yearly that shows what will be the jobs of the future and school should have weekly courses that describe and even invite people from every profession.
We need to educate the people who live here now, not bring in new people at the expense of current citizens, until we are fully employed. Rarely is the easy way out the best way in the long run.
Mostly because the message would be to long and I am not making a spiel to all on here making this account and profile I let some stuff out and lifted off a few pounds. I am no felon but I certainly was on my way still am and almost was convicted for the few years real world experience I have especially out of a suburb I dont have it nearly as hard as many but I have definitely made it hard, long story short time frame. I’m on my way
This is the only thing I can make any comments on since I am not a registered member I do not have the capital let alone any at all to do so right now. I am working on it but I am working on a lot. I am just writing this to make my voice heard to who ever cares to listen I have no direct message to make right here right now but wait. Let me clean up the mess I made for myself first
Mr Rae,
i live in a small town North of sixty, which is in some ways emblematic of the disconnect between education, jobs, young people[ particularly young native people] and trades and skills training in this country.
I’m of the opinion that we[ meaning well meaning parents and school jobs counselors] push far too many students toward a post secondary education to which they are unsuited. I make no apology if that sound elitist, but while higher education should be available to all, that doesn’t mean all should attempt it.
There’s a crying need for focused trades specific training facilities through out the North[ and probably elsewhere]to get young people in general, and Aboriginal youth in particular a good head start down the road to future employability and capable of seizing and creating self employment opportunities.
We have a wonderful new shop off our HS; i’m betting many other communities aren’t nearly so fortunate.
Good post. Not everyone want to go on to college or university. Some people love to work with their hands and very good at it. Plumbers, electricians, and many more trades provide for a very good, comfortable living. We need trades people. They’re professionals just like any other profession.
After leaving high school (long ago), I registered with the apprenticeship program for automotive mechanics in Ontario after starting with a small GM dealership, and earned my automotive trade certificate through it. I still keep my trade certificates active today.
We need to have apprenticeship standards that apply equally in all provinces across Canada. We do not have that today, with respect to the ratio between the number of journeymen (persons) and apprentices in most trades.
I understand that, in Ontario (for example) any given trades shop cannot have of more than one apprentice on the shop floor for every 4 or 5 journeymen (persons) on the same shop floor. Many trades shop owners and operators believe this makes it very difficult for them to train and retain to alleviate workforced shortages, especially in the welding, fabricating and industrial trades. I agree.
We need to reduce this ratio. It should be reduced to one-on-one, and it should be the same all across Canada. This would be most beneficial to smaller trades shops in particular, for example, allowing a shop with 3 or 4 journeymen (persons) to take on 3 or for apprentices at once rather than being limited to one or none.
This then leaves it up to the business owner to determine how many apprentices his or her shop can take on at once. It would also help put more Canadians back to work in better paying jobs faster than what we have now, in sectors where workforce shortages are most prevelant.
I worked as a teacher in a Community College where the program was a lower level of the University program. I guess I am biased but I found the graduates from our program were far more willing to actually work at their job while the University grads expected to start at the top with top wages and just be the boss..didn’t really care to get their hands dirty. Unfortunately that meant there are more Chiefs than workers
Yes, there is a place for both skills and academic programs, but there has to be equal opportunity for $$ assistance for all no matter what the student needs and wants.
I think this is a great initiative. Educated people are more productive people.
I’ve been looking for funding to go back to school and not qualifying for the EI programs have really made things difficult. It would be helpful to me if more funds were put into the fed gov’t program for retraining people with injuries or disabilities.
Bob the government brings in so many skilled trades people from so many countries that well what future do those students have in taking up a trade? Isn’t it about time we yes look towards a future where Canadians come first! Let’s put a stop to the ready made way of dealing with the shortages of the skilled in this country. And yes lower the rate of youth unemployment. :)